6 ms·

I think the "still going after 7 years" means "still hasn't been released after 7 years". It was supposed to be for sale in 2014 and still hasn't shipped yet (f

I think the "still going after 7 years" means "still hasn't been released after 7 years". It was supposed to be for sale in 2014 and still hasn't shipped yet (from what I can find in Google). The creators have been stringing along their backers for the better part of a decade. As far as utility, it seems like more of a gimmick than something that would get regular use. I can't think of a time when I've been working on a project and wished I had a 1/2" drive ratchet, a short pry bar, and a hammer but only had space in the tool bag for one of them.

anonAndOn 6y ago
Maybe they'll make it out of titanium and go after the ultralight tool enthusiast market? It'll never get used, but damn it's light!
- camillomiller 6y ago
  I was writing a comment asking what's the point of a lighter hammer, then I realized that a lighter hammer you can swing faster is actually exponentially more effective than a heavier hammer. KE = 1/2mv^2 babe! Physics, bi*ch! :)
  - GlennS 6y ago
    Do you definitely want to transfer kinetic energy more than momentum? I reckon a lighter hammer swung faster is more likely to end up with a bent nail. Also, exponential would be 2^v. v^2 is quadratic. (And you need to sub in the F=ma part as well to demonstrate your point, so your gain from the lighter hammer should be less than quadratic. Exercise left to the reader.)
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > Do you definitely want to transfer kinetic energy more than momentum? Seems that way; if you're using a hammer, the goal is for all parts of the system to come to a stop. You're trying to deform the material you're hammering the nail into; isn't that measured in energy transfer?
      - GlennS 6y ago
        I guess this is tricky because you want all that energy to go into deforming the wood and not the nail. The physics is beyond me here. Intuitively, I feel like weighty hits tend to drive the nail into the wood, whereas fast hits just bash the nail about. That might be more about accuracy though? (Also my anecdote confirmed by someone with practical experience, see other comment.)
        thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > Intuitively, I feel like weighty hits tend to drive the nail into the wood, whereas fast hits just bash the nail about. That might be more about accuracy though? Yes, if you're using your arm, there's a tradeoff between speed and accuracy. If you're using a nail gun, not so much. I was just saying that it looks to me like measuring what happens in energy seems correct, and measuring in momentum looks like a conceptual mistake.
    - shanecoughlan 6y ago
      Note from someone who does a lot of woodwork: yup, that’s right.
    - tzs 6y ago
      It's probably too late for anyone to see this, but I think momentum is what matters for a hammer. Here is my argument. I'm assuming that when you swing a hammer, your arm applies a constant force to the hammer. Let's say that force is F, and we are swinging the hammer a distance of d, and the mass of the hammer is M. Then the acceleration is a = F/M. The distance traveled in time t is 1/2 a t^2 = 1/2 F/M t^2. We want that to be d. That happens at time t = sqrt(2dM/F). The velocity at time t is a t, so the velocity when the hammer hits the nail is v = sqrt(2dF/M). That gives a momentum of M v = sqrt(2dFM). The kinetic energy is 1/2 M v^2 = 1/2 M 2dF/M = d F. Note that the momentum at distance d depends on the mass. It goes up as the square root of mass. Kinetic energy at distance d, on the other hand, does not depend on mass. When I've hit hammers with nails, the heavy hammers have always seemed to drive the nail deeper per hit than the light hammers, which suggests that hammer mass does matter, suggesting that it is not kinetic energy that determines how deep the nail is driven.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    But you want slow accurate strokes with most hammers. Very hard to get precision with speed.
  - danaliv 6y ago
    Light hammers are good for riveting. You need something that won’t overpower whatever you’re using to buck the rivet. (In my case, a three-pound sledgehammer head.)
- auxym 6y ago
  One of the features of a hammer is its weight. If you want a lighter hammer you can just buy a smaller one. But people buy 1 lb hammers specifically because they weigh 1 lb.
- imglorp 6y ago
  No joke actually, there really are pro carpenter titanium hammers and they are expensive. https://youtu.be/IE0-I0T7Xhc?t=399 https://youtu.be/IE0-I0T7Xhc?t=399 But these multi taskers are pretty much good at nothing.
  - jschwartzi 6y ago
    I would buy the shit out of a titanium framing hammer but only if they put a soft steel face on it. Older framing hammers are better than newer framing hammers because nails tend to smash the waffle teeth down enough that they don't tear up your thumb when you miss. Titanium is strong enough that this never happens so your hammer destroys your thumb no matter how old it is.
AlexandrB 6y ago
I think the king of stringing along backers is still Star Citizen who - 8+ years after the original Kickstarter[1] - are still taking crowdfunding money with no finished product in sight. [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen
- D13Fd 6y ago
  Agreed. I think it’s unlikely that they will ever have a finished product. They’ll probably coast until the magical money spigot runs out, then fold quickly.
- timpark 6y ago
  Another long-running one (though not as much of a money-sink) is Spaceventure, by the creators of Space Quest. Star Citizen appears to have an estimated delivery of Nov.2014, but the estimated delivery of Spaceventure was Feb.2013. The game entered beta almost half a year ago. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spaceventure/two-guys-spaceventure-by-the-creators-of-space-que/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spaceventure/two-guys-s...
- madamelic 6y ago
  It's not fair to say SC doesn't have a product. They have an alpha that's fun to mess around in and gets big updates 4x a year. There are plenty of games that cost $60+ that are worse than SC for $45 and the promise of bigger updates. If CIG folds after a decade, that's not a scam... that's just a mismanaged studio. CIG has delivered a product. You can judge whether it is a good product, but they have delivered and continue to deliver.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    $363,500,000 and no finished product. LOL, Jesus Christ if this isn't proof-positive that Modern Monetary Theory has corrupted everything I don't know what is...
    - madamelic 6y ago
DanBC 6y ago
But also, hammers for framing or demolition already exist and are very good. Martinez M1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8AOrkfR1WM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8AOrkfR1WM A bunch of different hammers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabECxs3WhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabECxs3WhU
- mike_d 6y ago
  Came here to mention the Martinez M1. Hammers are basically a solved problem. I hope to one day have a project big enough to justify buying one.
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  I was more impressed with how quiet the nail gun was compared to ~20 years ago when I used to work with my dad, that was a gas one, damn loud. :D
mc32 6y ago
It reminds me of the useless Craftsman “gift” SKU Craftsman puts on display ends during the holidays: a combo crescent, hammer and pry iron[1] Aha! That’s what I’ll get good old uncle Bill. I think it took Leatherman ten years to get something out the door —but that was the 70s when you didn’t have the prototyping we have today. [1] https://www.craftsman.com/products/automotive-tools/wrenches-wrench-sets/adjustable-wrenches/cmmt12003--10-in-demo-adjustable-wrench https://www.craftsman.com/products/automotive-tools/wrenches...
elliekelly 6y ago
And here I thought it was a kickstarter for a hammer invented by a 7 year old kid.
warent 6y ago
How are they stringing them along? The Kickstarter can no longer receive funds. Do scammers typically provide updates for 7+ years after they stopped receiving money?
- indispensible 6y ago
  Typically, if the project meets its goal, the project is allowed to make updates indefinitely, even if the project never comes to fruition. It's a shame, really. Speaking from experience, I once raised over $20K USD on a $48K goal. The project failed on Kickstarter; however, I was able to raise funds and complete the project by other means, but Kickstarter does not allow me to make updates to the project because it 'failed.' I have to ask, though... which project is a failure, the one which is completed despite failing to meet the Kickstarter goal, or the one which meets the goal but never delivers?
  - warent 6y ago
    Meta / off-topic, I'm fascinated by the fact that your account is nearly 3 years old but this is apparently your first comment.
    - indispensible 6y ago
      Let's make it two. I had a previous account that for some reason I dropped before this one. I believe that account also only accrued one or two comments over the course of a few years, as well. I happily lurk and consume along with the other 99%.[1] In part, this is because when I read HN, I attempt to stay on the front page for the sake of time and though I appreciate those who sort by new and filter what gets to my eyes, it's rare that a conversation is fresh enough that it makes it worthwhile to comment in terms of viewership, nor that it's valuable enough insight to take up someone else's finite resource pool of time to read. It seems upon personal review that by posting I may now have committed violence twice today on that valuable resource. My apologies. I'll attempt to post less regularly or more profoundly in the future. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
electro_blah 6y ago
So, Is this Vaporware or Hardware?
dec0dedab0de 6y ago
I can't think of a time when I've been working on a project and wished I had a 1/2" drive ratchet, a short pry bar, and a hammer but only had space in the tool bag for one of them. I don't know anything about the product itself, but based on your description I wish I had something like that in the van when i was in a band and we were going on road trips in a cheap van. Especially if they somehow included a hacksaw.

anonAndOn 6y ago

Maybe they'll make it out of titanium and go after the ultralight tool enthusiast market? It'll never get used, but damn it's light!

camillomiller 6y ago
I was writing a comment asking what's the point of a lighter hammer, then I realized that a lighter hammer you can swing faster is actually exponentially more effective than a heavier hammer. KE = 1/2mv^2 babe! Physics, bi*ch! :)
- GlennS 6y ago
  Do you definitely want to transfer kinetic energy more than momentum? I reckon a lighter hammer swung faster is more likely to end up with a bent nail. Also, exponential would be 2^v. v^2 is quadratic. (And you need to sub in the F=ma part as well to demonstrate your point, so your gain from the lighter hammer should be less than quadratic. Exercise left to the reader.)
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    > Do you definitely want to transfer kinetic energy more than momentum? Seems that way; if you're using a hammer, the goal is for all parts of the system to come to a stop. You're trying to deform the material you're hammering the nail into; isn't that measured in energy transfer?
    - GlennS 6y ago
      I guess this is tricky because you want all that energy to go into deforming the wood and not the nail. The physics is beyond me here. Intuitively, I feel like weighty hits tend to drive the nail into the wood, whereas fast hits just bash the nail about. That might be more about accuracy though? (Also my anecdote confirmed by someone with practical experience, see other comment.)
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > Intuitively, I feel like weighty hits tend to drive the nail into the wood, whereas fast hits just bash the nail about. That might be more about accuracy though? Yes, if you're using your arm, there's a tradeoff between speed and accuracy. If you're using a nail gun, not so much. I was just saying that it looks to me like measuring what happens in energy seems correct, and measuring in momentum looks like a conceptual mistake.
  - shanecoughlan 6y ago
    Note from someone who does a lot of woodwork: yup, that’s right.
  - tzs 6y ago
    It's probably too late for anyone to see this, but I think momentum is what matters for a hammer. Here is my argument. I'm assuming that when you swing a hammer, your arm applies a constant force to the hammer. Let's say that force is F, and we are swinging the hammer a distance of d, and the mass of the hammer is M. Then the acceleration is a = F/M. The distance traveled in time t is 1/2 a t^2 = 1/2 F/M t^2. We want that to be d. That happens at time t = sqrt(2dM/F). The velocity at time t is a t, so the velocity when the hammer hits the nail is v = sqrt(2dF/M). That gives a momentum of M v = sqrt(2dFM). The kinetic energy is 1/2 M v^2 = 1/2 M 2dF/M = d F. Note that the momentum at distance d depends on the mass. It goes up as the square root of mass. Kinetic energy at distance d, on the other hand, does not depend on mass. When I've hit hammers with nails, the heavy hammers have always seemed to drive the nail deeper per hit than the light hammers, which suggests that hammer mass does matter, suggesting that it is not kinetic energy that determines how deep the nail is driven.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  But you want slow accurate strokes with most hammers. Very hard to get precision with speed.
- danaliv 6y ago
  Light hammers are good for riveting. You need something that won’t overpower whatever you’re using to buck the rivet. (In my case, a three-pound sledgehammer head.)
auxym 6y ago
One of the features of a hammer is its weight. If you want a lighter hammer you can just buy a smaller one. But people buy 1 lb hammers specifically because they weigh 1 lb.
imglorp 6y ago
No joke actually, there really are pro carpenter titanium hammers and they are expensive. https://youtu.be/IE0-I0T7Xhc?t=399 https://youtu.be/IE0-I0T7Xhc?t=399 But these multi taskers are pretty much good at nothing.
- jschwartzi 6y ago
  I would buy the shit out of a titanium framing hammer but only if they put a soft steel face on it. Older framing hammers are better than newer framing hammers because nails tend to smash the waffle teeth down enough that they don't tear up your thumb when you miss. Titanium is strong enough that this never happens so your hammer destroys your thumb no matter how old it is.

AlexandrB 6y ago

I think the king of stringing along backers is still Star Citizen who - 8+ years after the original Kickstarter[1] - are still taking crowdfunding money with no finished product in sight. [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

D13Fd 6y ago
Agreed. I think it’s unlikely that they will ever have a finished product. They’ll probably coast until the magical money spigot runs out, then fold quickly.
timpark 6y ago
Another long-running one (though not as much of a money-sink) is Spaceventure, by the creators of Space Quest. Star Citizen appears to have an estimated delivery of Nov.2014, but the estimated delivery of Spaceventure was Feb.2013. The game entered beta almost half a year ago. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spaceventure/two-guys-spaceventure-by-the-creators-of-space-que/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spaceventure/two-guys-s...
madamelic 6y ago
It's not fair to say SC doesn't have a product. They have an alpha that's fun to mess around in and gets big updates 4x a year. There are plenty of games that cost $60+ that are worse than SC for $45 and the promise of bigger updates. If CIG folds after a decade, that's not a scam... that's just a mismanaged studio. CIG has delivered a product. You can judge whether it is a good product, but they have delivered and continue to deliver.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  $363,500,000 and no finished product. LOL, Jesus Christ if this isn't proof-positive that Modern Monetary Theory has corrupted everything I don't know what is...
  - madamelic 6y ago

DanBC 6y ago

But also, hammers for framing or demolition already exist and are very good. Martinez M1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8AOrkfR1WM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8AOrkfR1WM A bunch of different hammers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabECxs3WhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabECxs3WhU

mike_d 6y ago
Came here to mention the Martinez M1. Hammers are basically a solved problem. I hope to one day have a project big enough to justify buying one.
philliphaydon 6y ago
I was more impressed with how quiet the nail gun was compared to ~20 years ago when I used to work with my dad, that was a gas one, damn loud. :D

mc32 6y ago

It reminds me of the useless Craftsman “gift” SKU Craftsman puts on display ends during the holidays: a combo crescent, hammer and pry iron[1] Aha! That’s what I’ll get good old uncle Bill. I think it took Leatherman ten years to get something out the door —but that was the 70s when you didn’t have the prototyping we have today. [1] https://www.craftsman.com/products/automotive-tools/wrenches-wrench-sets/adjustable-wrenches/cmmt12003--10-in-demo-adjustable-wrench https://www.craftsman.com/products/automotive-tools/wrenches...

elliekelly 6y ago

And here I thought it was a kickstarter for a hammer invented by a 7 year old kid.

warent 6y ago

How are they stringing them along? The Kickstarter can no longer receive funds. Do scammers typically provide updates for 7+ years after they stopped receiving money?

indispensible 6y ago
Typically, if the project meets its goal, the project is allowed to make updates indefinitely, even if the project never comes to fruition. It's a shame, really. Speaking from experience, I once raised over $20K USD on a $48K goal. The project failed on Kickstarter; however, I was able to raise funds and complete the project by other means, but Kickstarter does not allow me to make updates to the project because it 'failed.' I have to ask, though... which project is a failure, the one which is completed despite failing to meet the Kickstarter goal, or the one which meets the goal but never delivers?
- warent 6y ago
  Meta / off-topic, I'm fascinated by the fact that your account is nearly 3 years old but this is apparently your first comment.
  - indispensible 6y ago
    Let's make it two. I had a previous account that for some reason I dropped before this one. I believe that account also only accrued one or two comments over the course of a few years, as well. I happily lurk and consume along with the other 99%.[1] In part, this is because when I read HN, I attempt to stay on the front page for the sake of time and though I appreciate those who sort by new and filter what gets to my eyes, it's rare that a conversation is fresh enough that it makes it worthwhile to comment in terms of viewership, nor that it's valuable enough insight to take up someone else's finite resource pool of time to read. It seems upon personal review that by posting I may now have committed violence twice today on that valuable resource. My apologies. I'll attempt to post less regularly or more profoundly in the future. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)

electro_blah 6y ago

So, Is this Vaporware or Hardware?

dec0dedab0de 6y ago

I can't think of a time when I've been working on a project and wished I had a 1/2" drive ratchet, a short pry bar, and a hammer but only had space in the tool bag for one of them. I don't know anything about the product itself, but based on your description I wish I had something like that in the van when i was in a band and we were going on road trips in a cheap van. Especially if they somehow included a hacksaw.