6 ms·

I love Wolfe. Which book to read first depends on your attitude towards the fantasy genre. If you're skeptical of it, I would recommend starting with the compac

by pavlov 6y ago

I love Wolfe. Which book to read first depends on your attitude towards the fantasy genre. If you're skeptical of it, I would recommend starting with the compact sci-fi short story trilogy of "Fifth Head of Cerberus" rather than the magnum opus of "The Book of the New Sun". If Cerberus works for you, there is a ton more to chew in New Sun, and you should absolutely read it whether or not you like more mainstream fantasy works. And if you like New Sun but haven't read Jack Vance's original take on a similar world, "Dying Earth", it's absolutely worth it. Nowhere near as deep as Wolfe, but way more funny — a truly unique voice from the golden era of sci-fi.

glangdale 6y ago
Do note that while Jack Vance is wonderful, there's some really ugly stuff in subsequent Dying Earth books (Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga) that make it a bit hard to take for modern readers. It's not explicitly described, but having the protagonist (who is admittedly a dick, but not really portrayed as an anti-hero per se) commit multiple rapes might not be for everyone. Despite this, I love Vance's work (AFAIK I have read almost all of his work except the detective fiction and his one book for teens), but there's really some hard stuff to justify from a modern perspective about assault, gender and race in there.
glangdale 6y ago
p.s. Dying Earth proper (the book of short stories) and Rhialto the Marvelous are easier to take.
rotexo 6y ago
I really tried with Dying Earth (I particularly was interested in seeing the roots of D&D's magic system), but man the misogyny got to me real quick. I suppose it was just a product of its time, and different people's tolerance for that sort of thing will vary.
legerdemain 6y ago
Eeeeh... the Dying Earth novels can only be tolerated by a narrow set of readers. They're probably recommended because that narrow set used to make up a bigger fraction of the sci-fi readership. Dying Earth is incredibly puerile and laddish. Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga obviously have very little plot. They're just these repetitive picaresques where it's one hallucinatory thing happening after another, and none of it matters for more than a scene. It's kind of like Cartoon Network's Adventure Time, but without any lovable characters whatsoever. And then, of course, there is "The Murthe," in which the hero must defeat a sorceress who is turning wizards into women.
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  Blinkered perspective. Cugel is one of the greatest.
- caskstrength 6y ago
  I can agree with your criticism of plot of Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga, but Vance's worlbuilding is beautiful. It is a shame that most later fantasy and d&d worlds turned into banal Tolkien-knockoffs.

by pavlov 6y ago

glangdale 6y ago

Do note that while Jack Vance is wonderful, there's some really ugly stuff in subsequent Dying Earth books (Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga) that make it a bit hard to take for modern readers. It's not explicitly described, but having the protagonist (who is admittedly a dick, but not really portrayed as an anti-hero per se) commit multiple rapes might not be for everyone. Despite this, I love Vance's work (AFAIK I have read almost all of his work except the detective fiction and his one book for teens), but there's really some hard stuff to justify from a modern perspective about assault, gender and race in there.

glangdale 6y ago

p.s. Dying Earth proper (the book of short stories) and Rhialto the Marvelous are easier to take.

rotexo 6y ago

I really tried with Dying Earth (I particularly was interested in seeing the roots of D&D's magic system), but man the misogyny got to me real quick. I suppose it was just a product of its time, and different people's tolerance for that sort of thing will vary.

legerdemain 6y ago

Eeeeh... the Dying Earth novels can only be tolerated by a narrow set of readers. They're probably recommended because that narrow set used to make up a bigger fraction of the sci-fi readership. Dying Earth is incredibly puerile and laddish. Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga obviously have very little plot. They're just these repetitive picaresques where it's one hallucinatory thing happening after another, and none of it matters for more than a scene. It's kind of like Cartoon Network's Adventure Time, but without any lovable characters whatsoever. And then, of course, there is "The Murthe," in which the hero must defeat a sorceress who is turning wizards into women.

baggy_trough 6y ago
Blinkered perspective. Cugel is one of the greatest.
caskstrength 6y ago
I can agree with your criticism of plot of Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga, but Vance's worlbuilding is beautiful. It is a shame that most later fantasy and d&d worlds turned into banal Tolkien-knockoffs.