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When Barry Bond got caught doping, nobody said "The SF Giants were doping". Barry Bond owned that. That's all I'm looking for here.

fastball 6y ago
But this was a collective effort that involved multiple people within the company. When "the Astros" got caught stealing signs, we say it was the Astros, even though the majority of people involved with the team were not involved with the sign-stealing.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  You are arguing semantics (and apparently my first post focused too much on semantics). I am mostly concerned about accountability. The Astros cheating scandal resulted in: > "As a result, Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow and field manager A. J. Hinch were suspended for the entire 2020 season for failing to prevent the rules violations. The Astros were fined the maximum allowable $5 million and forfeited their first- and second-round picks in the 2020 and 2021 drafts. No players were punished because they had been given immunity by MLB in exchange for their cooperation.[1] The Astros subsequently fired both Luhnow and Hinch on the day their suspensions were announced" The individuals who made the decisions were held accountable, or at least some of them.
naravara 6y ago
When accountants at Enron defrauded the State of California and the SEC, we didn't say "accountants at Enron." We said "Enron" and held Enron, the entity, responsible.
- MaysonL 6y ago
  Also the CEO, COO and CFO were sentenced to prison.
  - at-fates-hands 6y ago
    Jeffrey Skilling served 24 years in jail Andrew Fastow committed suicide Ken Lay died of a heart attack before his trial Lou Pai walked away with $250 million and disappeared The litany of charges that were brought against the rest of the people involved have not been very successful: https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-ap-enron-trial-glance-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-ap-enron-trial-glance-sto... All of those sentenced in the above article were for reduced sentences since many of them testified against Skilling and others in order to get a shorter sentence. The only one who served any real prison time was Skilling.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Arguably, three people paid a heavy toll. Escaping prison because of suicide or having heart attack while waiting for your trial aren't exactly get out of jail free cards. Aside from that, totally agree. Many of the people who benefitted from the Enron disaster walked away without consequence. Very unsatisfying end.

fastball 6y ago

But this was a collective effort that involved multiple people within the company. When "the Astros" got caught stealing signs, we say it was the Astros, even though the majority of people involved with the team were not involved with the sign-stealing.

ogre_codes 6y ago
You are arguing semantics (and apparently my first post focused too much on semantics). I am mostly concerned about accountability. The Astros cheating scandal resulted in: > "As a result, Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow and field manager A. J. Hinch were suspended for the entire 2020 season for failing to prevent the rules violations. The Astros were fined the maximum allowable $5 million and forfeited their first- and second-round picks in the 2020 and 2021 drafts. No players were punished because they had been given immunity by MLB in exchange for their cooperation.[1] The Astros subsequently fired both Luhnow and Hinch on the day their suspensions were announced" The individuals who made the decisions were held accountable, or at least some of them.

naravara 6y ago

When accountants at Enron defrauded the State of California and the SEC, we didn't say "accountants at Enron." We said "Enron" and held Enron, the entity, responsible.

MaysonL 6y ago
Also the CEO, COO and CFO were sentenced to prison.
- at-fates-hands 6y ago
  Jeffrey Skilling served 24 years in jail Andrew Fastow committed suicide Ken Lay died of a heart attack before his trial Lou Pai walked away with $250 million and disappeared The litany of charges that were brought against the rest of the people involved have not been very successful: https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-ap-enron-trial-glance-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-ap-enron-trial-glance-sto... All of those sentenced in the above article were for reduced sentences since many of them testified against Skilling and others in order to get a shorter sentence. The only one who served any real prison time was Skilling.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Arguably, three people paid a heavy toll. Escaping prison because of suicide or having heart attack while waiting for your trial aren't exactly get out of jail free cards. Aside from that, totally agree. Many of the people who benefitted from the Enron disaster walked away without consequence. Very unsatisfying end.