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I'm not a fan of the clock shifting twice a year but perhaps someone can explain why they'd make daylight savings permanent instead of just abolishing it? Covi
by elmerfud 6y ago
I'm not a fan of the clock shifting twice a year but perhaps someone can explain why they'd make daylight savings permanent instead of just abolishing it?
Covid-19 has shown that stores/businesses are perfectly capable of adjusting their hours and people have minimal issues handing that change. Why not just standard time everywhere. Seems like more mucking about for "reasons".
- macintux 6y agoSeems like you could flip a coin. Daylight saving time is bad for some longitudes and latitudes in the winter, standard time is bad for other longitudes and latitudes in the summer. I don’t think it matters in the grand scheme of things which one you pick: it’s going to suck for some.
- chrishas35 6y agoCrazy idea here, but how about a....compromise! A one time 30 minute offset and we'll really screw everyone up, but it's equal to both sides.
- macintux 6y agoIndia would probably appreciate that.
- ianmcgowan 6y agoWill make working with IST India Standard Time slightly easier - the 30 minute offset is always slightly off-putting ;_)
- kibwen 6y agoBillions of people in the world exist at a 30 minute offset to UTC, so it's not quite as absurd as it sounds.
- chrishas35 6y agoNot at all. The crazy/absurd part is compromise of opposing view points in Congress ;)
- 51Cards 6y agoIn Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada the sun will "rise" officially at close to 10am for about a month.
- dwighttk 6y agoThis is a US bill, not Canadian. Does Canada use US law to set their time ones?
- Mountain_Skies 6y agoNo officially but for practical reasons they follow what the US does in regards to time. There was no widespread support for expanding the range of daylight saving time during the early 2000s but when George W. Bush changed the start and end dates of DSL to make it look like he was doing something about energy prices, Canada followed along. Given the size and depths of the ties between the two countries, it's impractical for Canada to not be in sync with the US on matters of time.
- delecti 6y agoI think it's pretty safe to assume that a lot of places would follow the US's example if this law passes, and Canada is by far the most likely to do so. I don't think the US is responsible for that, per se, but it's not crazy to treat it as a given that Canada would follow suit.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 51Cards 6y agoWe've already passed legislation up here saying that if North America switches, we're going to follow suit.
- warmwaffles 6y agoIs this just to make DST the constant time? That way it never shifts again?
- kibwen 6y agoYes.
- falcolas 6y agoThe reason I hear most often when this comes up: People like having more "sunshine" hours after their work day is done. DST provides an extra hour than standard time.
- dawnerd 6y agoSome of us like the sun to go down at a reasonable time in summer, not 9-10pm.
- thatfrenchguy 6y ago9-10pm is the perfect time for the sun to go down in summer, you can enjoy being outside for longer.
- falcolas 6y agoHonestly, I'd like it if it went down earlier; it's fun to have a drink outside in the twilight and night hours while still going to bed at a reasonable hour (which is around 10, in my case). I can do that in the winter, sure, but in the summer there's a distinct lack of snow, which is nice.
- Mountain_Skies 6y agoThat's an incredibly insensitive statement to make considering how many people have light induced insomnia. They suffer greatly during the summer months to make it easier for other people to play golf after work. Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean everyone enjoys the same thing or that it is free from consequences to others that you don't have to endure yourself.
- xenocratus 6y agoDo you have some data on how many people have light induced insomnia?
- avalys 6y agoWhat about the people who suffer from SAD in the winter when it gets dark at 4:30 PM and they have to commute home from work in the darkness? You can't please everyone.
- gecko 6y agoEh, it's just saying whether we'll stay an extra +0100 from UTC or not. I don't see a big deal. If people prefer the extra daylight in summer overall, then I don't really see it making a big difference.
- kibwen 6y agoI'm one of those people who would much prefer more sunlight in the afternoon, even at the expense of less sunlight in the morning. Sign me up for this bill.
- wenc 6y agoI don't mind either way, but it does make a difference for coordinating meetings and for international commerce. Adding 1 hr is advantageous because it will give the Americas (UTC -8 to -5, minus Hawaii and Alaska) an extra usable overlap hour for meetings with Europe (~UTC 0 to +2), and with Asia-Pacific (~UTC +8 to +9) for 18 weeks of the year. Europe observes daylight savings, but Asia largely doesn't [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time
- jschulenklopper 6y agoAbolishing DST (or rather: switching time twice per year) in Europe is planned as well.
- chadash 6y agoThis is being pushed by Florida politicians who want later sunsets in the winter, which is better for tourism (and general quality of life for many residents there). If you are on the Western part of a timezone (e.g. Michigan), you may prefer to be in standard time all year long, or prefer the status quo or just not care either way.
- unethical_ban 6y agoas much as I would like DST to be the standard, I would find it absolutely awesome where, if Congress can agree to one or the other but not which, a binding coinflip were done to decide which one wins. In the real world, shrewd business lobbies certainly have too much interest one way or the other to let fate decide.
- mensetmanusman 6y agoI would love to see a speciality DST-themed, NIST-designed (for 50:50 surety) U.S. coin to be used in such a case.
- purple_ferret 6y agoMaine has passed a bill with a similar outcome (moving to AST)
- SloopJon 6y agoOn the coastal side of the enormous Eastern Time Zone, I like the idea of permanent EDT or the proposed AST. Permanent DST (nationwide) is slightly better for New England than AST, because it avoids the hassle of being in a different time zone than New York, D.C., et al. On the other hand, it's probably not as good for, say, Indianapolis.
- thewebcount 6y agoI grew up in Michigan and loved the late sunsets. If I could I'd always be in the western edge of my timezone during DST.
- 6y ago
- bichiliad 6y agoIn short, because DST better aligns with most people's day schedules than standard time does because it adds daylight time in the evening instead of in the morning (I'd love a better source than this[0], but it matches the rationale I've always heard). [0]: https://time.com/5888112/daylight-savings-time-permanent/ https://time.com/5888112/daylight-savings-time-permanent/
- jonny_eh 6y ago> DST better aligns with most people's day schedules I don't understand how this can be true. If it's better for people to wake up an hour earlier or later, then do that. Who cares what the clock says?
- quest88 6y agoSchool / work / other obligations start at a time that would prevent people from sleeping an extra hour.
- thayne 6y ago> Who cares what the clock says? People whose schedules are dictated by another entity, such as a school or employer.
- jfrankamp 6y agoYesterday my wife and kid were trying to go for a walk in the neighborhood before the light ended and the sun set. My work expects me to be callable until 5. I sent them out without me at 4, the sun sets here around 4:30. I never left the house. I would pay actual money to get that hour back and be on DST year round. I would be interested to see if the split of opinion on this has to do with early risers/night owl orientation primarily, for me more light earlier has almost no value, but light at the end of the work day is worth a lot.
- mac01021 6y ago> for me more light earlier has almost no value, but light at the end of the work day is worth a lot. I agree with this, but why wouldn't we stay on standard time and just all switch to starting school and work an hour earlier? It would achieve the same thing as permanent DST except it would also preserve the property of our time system that midnight and noon are the times that the sun is lowest and highest in the sky.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- unethical_ban 6y agoI'm in the camp that wants "permanent DST" - like others have said, I prefer the light after work, into the dinner hours. I live in the southern US and at winter solstice, it's dark by 6pm. So strange.
- vhodges 6y ago:)... I am not so far north (49th basically) and it's dark by 4:40 on the solstice for us. For the summer solstice though it's light out till almost 10pm
- nostrademons 6y agoMaking DST permanent effectively shifts all of the U.S. one timezone eastward (so EDT = UTC+4, PDT = UTC+7, instead of +5 and +8 for their standard time equivalents). People seem to prefer the earlier timezone (which gives extra daylight in the evening at the expense of the morning), and it also makes collaboration with Europe a bit easier.
- kibwen 6y agoI certainly prefer it, but I think it's too soon to say that "people" prefer it, unless you are aware of some kind of public poll that asked the question.
- Abfrage 6y agoThe European Union had a poll: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-to-stop-changing-the-clocks-juncker-pledges/a-45300586 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-to-stop-changing-the-clocks-juncker...
- maxerickson 6y agoThere's a lot of variation based on what part of time zones people live in (and how far north they are). Here we have a month where daylight isn't a whole lot better than 8:00-5:00, so it's always amusing to hear people say that they like it to be daylight when they wake up (so 1.5 hours less sun here than San Francisco today, which is where the last person I saw with that complaint lives).
- SllX 6y agoCalifornia voted on it in a manner which was a ballot initiative but functionally served as a poll. The text authorized the State legislature to make the change if Congress passed a law allowing the State to make the change. It passed.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoWA/OR/CA are set to go DST permanently as soon as the federal government allows them to. Wonder where all the states’ rights small government politicians are.
- lr 6y agoThe interesting thing is the person sponsoring the bill is from FL, where I don't think it matters to them which time to keep as much. For more Northern latitudes, both have issues for particular times of the year (like the sun coming up at 4:00 AM in the summer in most of NY State if we stuck to Standard time). But I also think this person is choosing DST over ST because, in 2019, Florida passed a law to make DST the normal time. Of course, it was symbolic because a state can't choose to be on DST (only to stay on ST): https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/florida-passed-a-bill-making-daylight-saving-time-permanent-so-why-are-we-turning-our-clocks-back https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/florida-passed-a-bi...
- koheripbal 6y agoThat's exactly why Florida is sponsoring it - they don't care which way is chosen, they just don't want to change their clocks anymore.
- eppsilon 6y agoAZ is in a similar position...we just don't change ours
- leobabauta 6y agoHere’s a good visual way of exploring that: http://andywoodruff.com/blog/where-to-hate-daylight-saving-time-and-where-to-love-it/ http://andywoodruff.com/blog/where-to-hate-daylight-saving-t...
- rcoveson 6y agoDST is nearly 8 months of the year. Making it permanent is a smaller move than abolishing it. "Standard time" is just a name. Daylight time is actually more "standard" from the perspective of most Americans.
- LaMarseillaise 6y agoExcept it is not just a name: standard time is supposed to indicate that the sun is at its zenith at noon somewhere in a timezone. If we do not care about that, why not abolish all timezones while we are at it?
- jgwil2 6y agoIt is just a name. No one has cared about solar noon since the 19th century, when every town set their own clock. The point of timezones is for everyone to work from the same reference with respect to train schedules, originally, and now flights, phone calls, bank hours, etc.
- rcoveson 6y agoAnd daylight time is that plus one hour. They're both standardized somehow or other, that's not the point. The error bars on that relationship with the noonday sun are large enough that neither daylight time nor standard time actually fit that definition anyway. Time zones cover an hour-wide area, and orbital mechanics of the Earth and Sun cause noon to drift a lot throughout the year. Both are workable, but one is more familiar, and that's daylight time.
- skywhopper 6y agoIf it’s always daylight saving time, then that is the standard time. We use daylight saving time 2/3 of the year already. Staying on DST is the least disruptive option.
- pkulak 6y agoIt's more politically viable to give people an hour after work to shop, even though it's far more healthy to wake up in the sunlight rather than darkness, and it's asinine to make children walk to school in the dark.
- globular-toast 6y agoMost geeks have at some point been nocturnal, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. We therefore recognise that the clock is just an instrument showing the current approximate position of the sun and nothing else. But normal people sort of, well, worship the clock. The clock tells them when to get up and when to come home. It's kinda lame, but it is what it is.
- moftz 6y agoPeople work together on things during the day and also happen to want to be able to visit stores and businesses around the same time every day. Also people sleep at night because it's easier to sleep in the dark than in the light. It sounds pompous to act like the clock is some sort of religious ritual and how anyone that wakes up in the morning to go to a 9-5 job is just a sheep. Most people like being awake when other people are awake so every one can do things together. Just like how NTP helps synchronize devices across the internet, regular clocks help people do the same.
- echelon 6y agoI don't want it to be dark when I finish work. DST gives us daylight to enjoy at the end of the day. I don't care if it's dark in the morning. I'm not a morning person, and I want the sun reserved for the evening. Restaurants and businesses are going to like this change too.
- grzm 6y ago“Daylight savings time” is a bit of a misnomer as commonly used, particularly in this case. What people generally find frustrating, and what this change is addressing, is the twice-yearly time change. People (and businesses and the like) will still schedule things when it makes sense for them. Whether a meeting is at 9:00 or 10:00 or some other number isn’t the real point.