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BTW, as of late Tesla isn't at all the big leader over there: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare https://eu-evs.com/marketShare
by anthony_r 6y ago
BTW, as of late Tesla isn't at all the big leader over there:
https://eu-evs.com/marketShare https://eu-evs.com/marketShare
- messo 6y agoTesla was all the rage for a couple of years, especially due to their exceptional (and free) charging infrastructure and weak competition. The government has done a lot to facilitate the expansion of the public charging infrastructure and this makes it more attractive to buy electric cars from other brands. Teslas are so common here know that it has lost much of its novelty. There are so many cars to choose from now.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoSounds like Tesla did what they were attempting to: dragging everyone to EVs faster. Edit: Would governments be starting to implement new combustion vehicle sales bans without robust charging infra and large quantities of EV deliveries quarter after quarter? Unlikely.
- vjuvvadi123 6y agoThis just sums up how tax payers subsidise EVs and some meme company takes the credit
- toomuchtodo 6y agoSour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.
- mhh__ 6y agoWhat's wrong with the Leaf? Some people just want a car that goes from A to B rather than a to flex on the plebs in a musk-mobile, good as they are.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoRange, battery longevity (older versions), lack of fast charge network and charge experience, no OTA software updates, no lane keeping (“autopilot”) on older versions. One can appreciate Tesla and not like Musk. Even as a Tesla investor, not a huge fan. I see him as a necessary evil. The cars sells, and that’s all that’s important.
- jackson1442 6y agoAlso, Leaf uses CHAdeMO to charge, which is neither as fast nor as common as CCS.
- mhh__ 6y agoNow find me a tesla for £7k like I can buy a leaf for used.
- Consultant32452 6y agoThe low price is an indicator of the low desirability.
- mhh__ 6y agoIt's sold 500k units which is more than most Tesla's have, it's a different product for a different market. Think again.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoWho is more likely to be right? You and your cheap used car use case or sophisticated capital markets and the valuation they’ve assigned to Tesla based on future expectations? Tesla can’t build 3s and Ys fast enough to keep up with demand, and they’re $40k-$50k (roughly) vehicles.
- mhh__ 6y ago
- ForHackernews 6y agoBy all accounts the Leaf and Bolt are great cars (to say nothing of the Toyota Prius & friends), they just don't have the cachet as a status symbol that Tesla does. I think it's similar to how the iPhone is the sexy mobile, but there's actually far more cheapo Android devices and feature-phones out there in use.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- gamblor956 6y agoLeafs and Bolts were sold out (or leased out) almost everywhere they were available before the Model 3 was released. The problem was that they never made enough of them because their respective manufacturers didn't believe the market was very large, largely because battery technology when they were first released simply wasn't as good as it is now.
- epistasis 6y agoThese awful manufacturers have also actively sandbagged their designs, making them less desirable and less normal, in an attempt to limit their appeal. Car manufacturers are masters of marketing. Their choices in how they market these cars are very intentional.
- gamblor956 6y agoThey were following the Prius strategy: the (original) Prius models were deliberately designed to be ugly to stand out and make a statement.
- CountSessine 6y agoI'm not even sure that it was an attempt to limit their appeal. There's a whole generation of old car executives who still think that anyone who would want an electric car is some sort of hippie-moonbat and you need to make the car look like a plastic sex-toy space capsule to appeal to that moonbat market. And then Tesla comes along with great engineering and a more conservative body design and eats their lunches.
- kjksf 6y agoUS sales of Nissan Leaf in 2016 was 14k. In 2019 it was 12k. If Nissan Leaf was sold out in U.S. it's only because Nissan decided not to make enough of them. Or they made exactly the very small amount that people were willing to buy. Bolt was even worse. They did 23k in 2017 and dropped to 16k in 2019. GM dealers were so desperate to get rid of them that at some point they offered up to $10k cash rebate. At that despite the fact that GM admitted they are loosing money on Bolt even when sold at full price. 20k a year in U.S. market of ~10 million cars is a rounding error. Whatever the reason, no one except Tesla was selling EV cars in US at non-laughable numbers. In contrast, Tesla sales went from 50k in 2017 to 195k in 2019.
- anthony_r 6y agoTo be honest most of the "credit" comes from Wall Street. Yes, Tesla wouldn't have been profitable if you subtracted the credits but it is absolutely not worth as much as the market says with the credits or even with 3x the credits it got. And the $TSLA price it's not just some random number mostly irrelevant to daily operations of the company, they sold/issued many shares at such valuations.
- epistasis 6y agoI've never looked, but I had always assumed that Tesla's valuation comes from lots of rabid-fans from the retail market. Are there many large investors or Wall Street players that are driving the share price?
- anthony_r 6y agoI did not distinguish between large and small investors, but pretty sure there are enough institutions on board.
- epistasis 6y agoAs awful as Tesla is, all the other car manufacturing companies are far far worse. Even with massive government incentives, even with their massive war chests, even with their massive production capacity, even with their access to capital markets for big investments, even then, they didn't make the smart move and had to be shown the path by an annoying megalomaniac who gets way too much attention. So yes, I regret giving money to Tesla, but it is the least bad option out there as far as giving money to these car companies. The only winning move is to not play the game, but unfortunately that same government that is paying for the EV transition is the system that, by law, is denying my ability to live a car-free daily life. There are no heroes here, nobody is doing exactly the right thing, but Tesla and the government are doing things partially right.
- UnpossibleJim 6y agoI think you've hit on something that a lot of the detractors of Tesla have seemed to have forgotten. The alternatives are Ford, Chevy, Honda and Toyota. While I fully understand that Tesla is no titan of the little man and Musk is a very flawed man, compared to the titans of industry and the sins of the past that these companies are responsible for, it's a little odd that so much vitriol gets thrown toward Tesla and not these companies who are, ever so slowly, switching from diesel and gas powered automobiles. I haven't even mentioned how Tesla is the only company that doesn't sponsor at least one (I think they all sponsor multiple) traditionally powered racing teams, whose development goes into premium powered, traditional gas powered automobiles. Plus the advertisement of said vehicles.
- clouddrover 6y ago> I haven't even mentioned how Tesla is the only company that doesn't sponsor at least one (I think they all sponsor multiple) traditionally powered racing teams, whose development goes into premium powered, traditional gas powered automobiles. Not exclusively. Formula 1 and Le Mans use hybrid engines. Formula E and Extreme E are battery electric racing series. Why doesn't Tesla have a Formula E team?
- 6y ago
- cat199 6y ago> Sounds like Tesla did what they were attempting to: dragging everyone to EVs faster. didn't realise Tesla is behind norwegian gov't support for EVs..
- cptskippy 6y agoThe Norwegian government has been in support of EVs going as far back as the 90s but Tesla demonstrated that EVs could supplant ICE entirely for a large percentage of the population. Prior to Tesla the market options were lacking and couldn't meet the majority of consumer demands. Now that Tesla has broken through, the incumbent ICE manufacturers are following suit.
- eitland 6y ago> Teslas are so common here know that it has lost much of its novelty. Also there's been some widely known problems where Tesla has failed big time wrt service.
- burgerquizz 6y agonice! can you add data for US and Asia (especially China)?
- anthony_r 6y agoNot my website, also I don't vouch for the accuracy :). Though I do use it myself.
- chrisseaton 6y agoAll marques seem cyclic due to new models being released I guess.
- bryanlarsen 6y agoTesla is cyclic because they're delivered on boats that have to transit the Panama canal. And because Tesla runs on the stock market quarterly cycle. The cars manufactured in the first month of the quarter are mostly delivered to Europe for delivery in the last month of the quarter. The cars manufactured in the second month get delivered to Eastern North America and the third month cars get delivered to California and close states. That way most cars are delivered in the same quarter they are manufactured in. So over 4000 cars were delivered in Norway in December, but only 200 in october. The COVID-19 shutdown disrupted that cycle, so December was really the only month this year that Tesla delivered a significant number of cars to Norway.
- chrisseaton 6y agoI mean people buy new models. When a new model or refreshed model comes out they're motivated to consider upgrading. When a model is a couple of years beyond the last refresh people aren't motivated because it's behind models which have been refreshed and they know a new one is coming so they wait.
- WoodenChair 6y agoIt seems like Volkswagen is making some real inroads in the EV market based on that data. Is this correct? What has fueled it—is there a particular model?
- TeeWEE 6y agoID.3 is already seen around every street corner here, and the ID.4 has just been released and I already saw 4... Tesla (in the Netherlands) doesnt have the tax incentives anymore because its too expensive, the ID.3 still has that cause its cheaper... So lease car owners choose ID.3 because money.
- magicalhippo 6y agoI'm guessing the ID.3, at least that's the one that dominates here in Norway[1]. [1]: https://ofv.no/registreringsstatistikk https://ofv.no/registreringsstatistikk (select "Desember" and check out the 2020 "Hittil" column)
- deugtniet 6y agoVolkswagen has majorly invested in EVs. One important model Volkswagen has made is the ID.3 . Similar in size to the golf / rabbit. This is an attainable car I'm interested in buying.
- arethuza 6y agoI'm in the UK, I suspect my first electric car (in a couple of years) will be the new Škoda based on the same platform as the ID.3: https://www.skoda.co.uk/electric-hybrid-cars/enyaq-iv https://www.skoda.co.uk/electric-hybrid-cars/enyaq-iv
- outoftheabyss 6y agoStill a huge markup on their petrol equivalents, roughly £14k more expensive. Yes you get a few extra bells and whistles and a small grant to help but that difference still has a ways to go
- INTPenis 6y agoI'm hearing more and more electric cars pass me in traffic and about half of them are not Teslas. (Sweden) I have no numbers to back this up, just observations of a cyclist commuter in Malmö. Edit: According to this absolutely awful website[1] it's up to 113,790 EVs in Sweden in 2020. And according to this[2] much better website jan-nov in 2020 saw 93k gasoline driven cars vs. 21k EVs. So we're not even close to Norway. :( 1. https://www.elbilsstatistik.se/elbilsstatistik https://www.elbilsstatistik.se/elbilsstatistik 2. https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/statistik-efter-amne/transporter-och-kommunikationer/vagtrafik/fordonsstatistik/pong/statistiknyhet/fordonsstatistik-november-2020/ https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/statistik-efter-amne/tran...
- dijit 6y agoAs far as I know there's not much incentive to buy electric in Sweden, where in Norway they're heavily subsidised. Also, small internet, Hello from Caroli, Malmo! [EDIT: Cars otherwise being heavily taxed and EV's being Tax free, both at purchase time and with annual car taxes (with additional perks such as no parking tolls and driving in bus lanes) is the definition of subsidised]
- xyproto 6y agoThey are not subsidized in Norway, just exempt from taxes.
- martinald 6y agoTaxes are absolutely enormous though so it is really a huge subsidy in a way.
- nickles 6y ago> just exempt from taxes That's a form of subsidy. > Subsidies come in various forms including: direct (cash grants, interest-free loans) and indirect (tax breaks, insurance, low-interest loans, accelerated depreciation, rent rebates). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy
- 6y ago
- acvny 6y agoAnd why do you think it has to be Tesla when you hear "electric car"? Check out this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electric_cars_currently_available https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electric_cars_currentl...
- CharlesW 6y agoWow, amazing to see Tesla trending down to under 1%. That seems to be evidence that their first-mover advantage won't help them as EVs become common.
- albertgoeswoof 6y agoTesla’s are great and all but American cars don’t exactly have a good reputation in Europe
- clajiness 6y agoAmerican cars don't have a good reputation with a lot of Americans. They're generally cheap vehicles with poor build quality.
- decafninja 6y agoI would not lump Teslas with the rest of "American cars". Quite a few people that wouldn't touch a Ford/Chrysler/GM vehicle seem eager to give Tesla a chance.
- gamblor956 6y agoYeah, sacrificing QC for scaling is biting them in the ass in a big way. There are plenty of people who have heard horror stories about Tesla and are now won't consider buying one. All of the small buy annoying defects were acceptable to the first-mover crowd, but they're an extremely small segment of the market. Once you go mass market, people care a great deal about the quality of something they're spending $30k+ on and which may be their only vehicle.
- BucketsMcG 6y agoWhat's more likely to happen first: Tesla catches up on a century's knowledge and experience of car manufacturing, or the combined resources of the entire car industry catches up on a decade or so of technological advantage in batteries?
- 6y ago
- pmcollins 6y agotrend line is badly misleading since 2021Q1 just started and tesla delivers their cars at the end of the quarter
- clouddrover 6y agoYou can see the 2020 sales figures for Norway using the "Top Models" view in the "classic" version of that site: https://eu-evs.com/CLASSIC/index.html https://eu-evs.com/CLASSIC/index.html Volkswagen had the first and third best selling cars in Norway in 2020, the Audi e-tron and the VW ID.3. The ID.3 didn't get a full year of sales because it has only been available since September.
- tomkat0789 6y agoInteresting link! It adds up to much less than 100%. What are the missing brands?
- lqet 6y agoInteresting site. Here in Germany, most of the electric cars I see are delivery vehicles by Deutsche Post or Renault Zoes (I don't own one, but regularly drive a Zoe (carsharing), I have no complaints). The market share for Germany seems to reflect that. I have never seen a Tesla on the road here.
- colinjoy 6y agoI see plenty of Tesla and BMW i3, even the occasional Porsche Taycan. I guess they are not distributed evenly across Germany.