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Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- TeeWEE 6y agoConsider buying VOLKSWAGEN group stock instead of TESLA stock... There are electric volkswagens everywhere, and their lineup of electric cars is amazing. Just saw the new ID4, its a super cool car: https://www.volkswagen.nl/modellen/id4 https://www.volkswagen.nl/modellen/id4 It looks way better in real life than on the site. With Tesla... These tesla model 3s are everywhere in the Netherlands, and they are a bit minimal in design and expensive.. A bit boring to be honest. But thats good, electrify the world!
- kwhitefoot 6y agoJust don't buy an ID until VW sort out the climate control and entertainment system. Currently quite a few Norwegian ID.3 owners are reluctant to drive them for fear of suddenly losing visibility when the climate control misbehaves: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/aPvwPd/volkswagens-midlertidige-id-3-loesning-skru-av-a-c?utm_source%3Dvgfront%26utm_content%3Drow-9 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https:/...
- gamblor956 6y agoIt's like how people are scared to buy Teslas because the car might drive them into a truck or center divider and kill them...
- kwhitefoot 6y agoNo it isn't. The ID.3 problems are real, VW are working on software updates to fix the problems and have emailed the owners to provide instructions for work arounds.
- gamblor956 6y agoYou do know that multiple people have actually died from Teslas driving themselves into trucks and center dividers? The worst part with the most recent center-divider crash is that it was an regression following an OTA update, demonstrating that OTA can cause just as much harm as good.
- kwhitefoot 6y agoAs far as I know all of the instances where Teslas drove into trucks and centre dividers were found to be at least partially due to driver behaviour (speeding, not paying attention). And also be aware that ordinary cars of all kinds do all of those things too. > most recent center-divider crash is that it was an regression following an OTA update, DO you have reference for that? I would be interested to read up on that, I have an interest as I have a Model S.
- lldbg 6y agoSell oil, buy electric cars. Is this the definition of hypocrisy? At least it is better than the alternative, sell oil and buy fossile fuel cars. Edit: I would like to rephrase the last sentence as "At least it is better than _an_ alternative, which is to sell oil and buy fossile fuel cars." which is a fairer categorisation of the problem space and less consumerist.
- anthony_r 6y agoAll developed countries "emit" a lot of CO2 by importing goods manufactured overseas in countries that are heavily reliant on fossil fuels including coal. There's just no going around the fact that this is a global problem.
- WesleyLivesay 6y agoOr maybe they are just following the "don't use your own supply" rule.
- orange_tee 6y agoThey are also lucky to have cheap electricity from hydro.
- marvin 6y agoIt isn't that cheap anymore. New undersea cables to Europe means we can export/time arbitrage a lot, and that increases prices.
- marcusklaas 6y agoSo the Norwegians are getting even richer, great!
- kwhitefoot 6y agoNo, individual Norwegians are getting poorer because we now have to pay closer to European market prices for electricity. Mind you the weather this summer was so wet that the prices went negative on a couple of occasions.
- anthony_r 6y agoBTW, as of late Tesla isn't at all the big leader over there: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare https://eu-evs.com/marketShare
- messo 6y agoTesla was all the rage for a couple of years, especially due to their exceptional (and free) charging infrastructure and weak competition. The government has done a lot to facilitate the expansion of the public charging infrastructure and this makes it more attractive to buy electric cars from other brands. Teslas are so common here know that it has lost much of its novelty. There are so many cars to choose from now.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoSounds like Tesla did what they were attempting to: dragging everyone to EVs faster. Edit: Would governments be starting to implement new combustion vehicle sales bans without robust charging infra and large quantities of EV deliveries quarter after quarter? Unlikely.
- vjuvvadi123 6y agoThis just sums up how tax payers subsidise EVs and some meme company takes the credit
- toomuchtodo 6y agoSour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.
- mhh__ 6y agoWhat's wrong with the Leaf? Some people just want a car that goes from A to B rather than a to flex on the plebs in a musk-mobile, good as they are.
- vinni2 6y agoAlso the reason why the government is also slowly phasing out incentives to the electric cars.
- CydeWeys 6y agoThey're not phasing out the #1 incentive to buy electric cars: Insanely high gasoline prices (nor should they). So I'm not seeing a regression in the making here.
- cbmuser 6y agoBuying a car in Norway or even from abroad has always been very expensive because of the taxes Norway poses on regular cars: > https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-vehicles/buying-car-in-norway https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-... Electric cars are exempt from these taxes which is why they are so attractive in Norway for customers. Electric cars are also exempt from road fees. Overall, electric cars in Norway are still getting 2.4 billion USD subsidies per year: > https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/norge-sponser-elbileiere-med-19-2-milliarder-kroner-det-er-ikke-dem-som-har-lite-penger-som-kjoper-tesla/s/12-95-3424032603 https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/norge-sponser-elbileiere-m... I mean, of course people are buying electric cars under these circumstances.
- zip1234 6y agoDoes Norway have any incentives/subsidies for electric bikes or scooters?
- cbmuser 6y agoAccording to this website, there is a discount on the VAT when buying an electric bikes in Norway: > https://kontohjelp.no/kontering/elsykkel/elsykkel-til-bruk-i-virksomhet https://kontohjelp.no/kontering/elsykkel/elsykkel-til-bruk-i... The official website of the Norwegian tax authority also has some details which mentions scooters (Norwegian: Ståhjuling) as well: > https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rettskilder/type/uttalelser/prinsipputtalelser/merverdiavgiftsloven--8-1-og--8-4-jf.-merverdiavgiftsforskriften--1-3-1-forste-ledd-bokstav-h---sporsmal-om-fradragsrett-for-inngaende-merverdiavgift-ved-anskaffelse-og-drift-av-stahjuling-og-el-sykkel/ https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rettskilder/type/uttalelser/p...
- gedy 6y agoSo 14 out of the 25 cars sold there? I jest ;-)
- magicalhippo 6y agoFrom the article: New car sales in the country last year were 141,412, of which 76,789 were fully electric. We're a small country, so yeah not huge numbers but...
- cbmuser 6y agoSmall countries, high subsidies: > https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/norge-sponser-elbileiere-med-19-2-milliarder-kroner-det-er-ikke-dem-som-har-lite-penger-som-kjoper-tesla/s/12-95-3424032603 https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/norge-sponser-elbileiere-m... I mean, the government is spending something like 2.5 billion US Dollars per year to subsidize electric cars, yet people still claim how electric cars are competitive. From having lived in Norway for a year, I also remember that even buying used cars with a combustion engine is ridiculously expensive due to the high taxes that electric cars are exempt from. I mean, of course, Norwegians are buying more electric cars. Who wouldn't given these circumstances?
- pcl 6y ago> the government is spending something like 2.5 billion US Dollars per year to subsidize electric cars The government currently does not charge import taxes on electric cars, but charges very high import taxes on ICE cars. I wouldn't say that the government is "spending" that money. For sure it's a subsidy, but the Norwegian government is not actually sending checks to people or manufacturers if they buy electric. There is a cost to road maintenance that needs to get funded from somewhere, and that cost is not currently being borne by electric car owners. But using the phrase "spending" makes it sound a whole lot like a check is getting cut in some amount and sent somewhere. (There's an ongoing debate about when to ramp up taxes for electric cars, and to what amounts, so don't expect the situation to remain as-is for too much longer.)
- unionemployee 6y agoElectric cars still result in Phoenix, AZ. What we need is Amsterdam.
- TeeWEE 6y agoYes the amsterdam city center is bike centric. But around it its all cars... Diesel cars are banned in the ring now, and there are TESLA's everywhere (lease car owners). The tax incentives where crazy, you could ride a Tesla for as cheap as 150 euro per month... But that now has stopped above 40k euro, and its the Volkswagen group that builds electrified cars in the sweet spot.
- jeofken 6y agoIn Norway it’s dark and cold as shit half the year and no flat parts of the towns; Amsterdam is flat and always pleasant or rainy
- lastofthemojito 6y agoSurely the OP meant that electric cars are still cars, and thus encourage car-centric cities with wide streets and lots of space devoted to parking, as opposed to denser, more walkable and bikable cities.
- kwhitefoot 6y agoHow are all those people who walk around the city going to get there? Norwegians live in quite scattered communities and even though we have better public transport that some other countries it really isn't convenient to time your visit to the nearest town and shopping centre to coincide with the bus timetable. For me a trip to the centre of the nearest town (Drammen, Norway) means a forty minute bus ride and the buses run once per hour, not too bad if all I want to do is go to a café or buy a small bag of shopping. If I need to visit one of the shopping centres nearer the edge of town it will take and hour and twenty minutes and two buses. Now imagine doing that with children as well while it is raining during the twenty minutes that you have to wait for the second bus. I'm not arguing against pedestrian friendly towns, in fact Drammen is very pedestrian friendly, just that it is really not enough to make a town pedestrian friendly, not here anyway, you also need a massive expansion in public transport. You need more routes, more frequent buses, you need overlapping routes so that people do not have to change buses too often.
- aphextron 6y agoThis is almost completely a result of artificial government imposed constraints that make ICE vehicles exceedingly more expensive there. It really has nothing to do with free market choice. A new Tesla Model 3 costs less than a Subaru Outback or Mini Cooper [0]. A VW eGolf also costs less than a base model ICE Golf. [0] https://www.skatteetaten.no/globalassets/tabeller-og-satser/listepris-bil/bilpriserpersonbil2019.pdf https://www.skatteetaten.no/globalassets/tabeller-og-satser/...
- unethical_ban 6y agoShould we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet?
- aphextron 6y ago>Should we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet? That's not my argument. It would be a good thing if all governments outlawed ICE consumer vehicles. However, headlines like this are portraying Norway as some kind of progressive utopia where everyone just wants to drive EVs. Obviously you can make people do whatever you want with aggressive enough tax policies. But the goal should be to get EVs to a fair market price point where they truly compete, not reliant on subsidies.
- mattmoose21 6y agoThe headline doesn't seem misleading. I would also argue that the government giving out incentives for electric cars makes Norway "some kind of progressive utopia" as it is a republic and I assume it is in someway what the people want.
- arve0 6y agoKia niro comes out the same price, electric sells the most. Hybrid 405k NOK [0] Electric 415k NOK [1] 0: https://www.kia.com/api/bin/docDownload?program=brochure&locale=no&path=%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fkwcms%2Fkme%2Fno%2Fnn%2Fassets%2Fprislister-brosjyrer%2F20-12-04%2F2021-Kia-Norge-Niro_hybrid(DE)_PE-kundeprisliste-August20-26-08-2020.pdf https://www.kia.com/api/bin/docDownload?program=brochure&loc... 1: https://www.kia.com/api/bin/docDownload?program=brochure&locale=no&path=%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fkwcms%2Fkme%2Fno%2Fnn%2Fassets%2Fprislister-brosjyrer%2F20-12-04%2F2021-Kia-Norge-e-Niro(DE)_PE-kundeprisliste-July20-31-07-2020.pdf https://www.kia.com/api/bin/docDownload?program=brochure&loc...
- guerby 6y agoThe interesting thing to follow will be how fast the petrol car infrastructure of the country will decay over time (charging station, mechanics). May be norwegians will sell their petrol car to less EV-advanced countries before they have no value at all in their home country?
- guerby 6y agoWikipedia page has interesting graphics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_N... including a nice S-curve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#/media/File:Registrations_EVs_Norway_2004_2013.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_N...
- noelrock 6y agoNorway has been leading the pack in this regard for quite some time. A few Government incentives, both financial and for instance the ability to use dedicated bus lanes (now discontinued in Oslo I think?) majorly helped. One of the large issues around uptake is simply infrastructure. Here in Ireland, it is still patchy at best. We had an EV (Nissan) from around 2016 but gave it up in 2020 as there was simply too much anxiety around out of service public chargers and lack of backup. Range anxiety is definitely possible to overcome, but it requires the state to back it up with resources: Norway has most definitively done this. Final thought: no surprise that ID.3 is making inroads in a huge way on sales. It's a sweet spot of a good car at an attainable price that looks, for want of a better word, 'normal'. Some EVs seem to be designed 'differently' almost for the sake of it - and while some will love that, it ends up adding another hurdle for a certain segment of the market I believe.
- bigpeopleareold 6y agoYou can still use the bus lanes in Oslo and in teh rest of Norway. :) I live here, but it also says on Statens Vegvesen site: (in Norwegian): https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/langs-veien/trafikkregler/kollektivfelt https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/langs-veien/trafi.... It's nice to avoid traffic jams. :) I drive occasionally and the first time I drove an electric last year, I barely made it to a charging station an hour outside Oslo and not close to another city. I had to wait a couple of hours before hopping to a fast charger. I treated it like a gas car, but after that, I changed both my attitude and a number of driving habits to get the most of them. I am happy the wide breadth of support across the country is available to maintain charging stations. Just on cost alone, I would prefer electric for rentals.
- noelrock 6y agoMany thanks. Was there a change in perhaps the hours they could be used, or was it floated perhaps at one stage? I’m nearly certain I read it more than once maybe 3-4 years ago. Edit: I found a link about it - https://www.thelocal.no/20150506/norway-strips-electric-cars-of-ke https://www.thelocal.no/20150506/norway-strips-electric-cars... - perhaps it has since been reversed again?
- velmu 6y agoBehold the amazing things that oil buys: Electric cars https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/production-forecasts/ https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/prod...
- glotgizmo 6y ago54% of the sales of NEW cars. Not all cars in Norway.
- nixass 6y agoI think everyone figured that out
- hojjat12000 6y agoWhat do you mean? You mean the used-car market? Why would that matter?
- frantzmiccoli 6y agoThe big blue box to the right says it all in terms of incentives https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/ https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/
- eloeffler 6y agoThis includes hybrids. It's really questionable to incentivize hybrid vehicles and selling it as a electrified success. Discussions about the efficiency/environmental impact/... of combustion v.s. electric aside, it's obvious that driving a huge battery around will burn more fuel. I think this can only be seen as a success for electrified motors if it's proven that they're actually being used.
- eggman314 6y agoIf the article is to be believed this does not include hybrids. The first sentence reads in part "... where the sale of electric cars has overtaken those powered by petrol, diesel and hybrid engines ... " (my emphasis)
- realradicalwash 6y ago> driving a huge battery around will burn more fuel and driving around two engines. also, equally important, having to produce two engines gives hybrids an extra co2 footprint even before their first km. this way, the total co2 footprint over the entire life cycle of a hybrid car can be just the same as that of the same car with a combustion engine.
- ajross 6y agoPlug-in hybrids used for routine urban driving (commutes, errands, etc...) are effectively EVs. I don't have usage data for Norway specifically, but the numbers that have been thrown around elsewhere are something like 20-30% of the driving is done using the gasoline engine. Almost everyone celebrating "electric cars" in that headline is really cheering for carbon reduction, and this for sure qualifies.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- michaelt 6y agoI've heard some reports that a lot of plug-in hybrid buyers don't plug them in - or rarely plug them in. In which case it's effectively a gasoline car.
- Uninen 6y agoA bit off-topic but I've been wondering how well self driving technologies will work in Nordic countries where the roads look pretty different in summer and in winter. At least for me, the one of the biggest interest for Tesla comes from its (current but especially future) self driving capabilities.
- disown 6y agoNorway is on par with saudi arabia when it comes to oil production ( per capita ). 313,661 vs 324,866. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ... This is like someone burning down a forest and then planting a single tree and expecting praise.
- roflchoppa3 6y agoCool to see Nissan on the charts there, common Nissan lets get some electric sports cars :)
- thraway2020 6y agoNorway is subsidizing electric vehicles (with cash) and disincentivizing ICE vehicles (with higher fuel costs and other levers). However, vehicles of all kinds are subsidized by society by other means [0]. If we all paid the true costs of driving, our built environment and society would be structured radically different. [0] "Should Law Subsidize Driving?" by Greg Shill https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3345366 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3345366
- jokethrowaway 6y agoEven just building roads shaped countries and cities in a certain way. Killing trains, increasing car usage, encouraging shipping things from far away locations. Hopefully with the next generation of city planning we won't be so stupid and create environments which are more liveable where people waste less time commuting and buy things as close to home as possible (even if the last point may have more to do with taxation / regulations / working conditions differences in various countries more than roads).
- outside1234 6y agoThey use money from all of the carbon they sell to provide massive tax discounts for electric cars, so the incentives are skewed to electric, so we shouldn't read too much into this in terms of market preference.