4 ms·

The majority of people don't see any value in it, sadly. At least we can hope terminal + tools as separate app bundles approach takes off.

forgotmypw17 6y ago
The majority doesn't decide what is done by the minority.
- rvense 6y ago
  It is increasingly impossible to live in my country without a number of apps that require an iOS device or an Android device with all the Google services enabled. There's one de facto monopoly payment app[0], a lot of places where you can't park without an app etc., but the big thing is we have a government mandated single sign-on solution. You can still get one-time-pads in the mail, but there's also an app, and some features of the service are now app only. The web allowed us to avoid a world where everyone had to own a Windows machine, but mobile phones are now making that a reality. [0] A privately owned replacement for cash, doesn't that just sound great...
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    Thank you for sharing your experience. My country is doing a soft migration, with some places now refusing cash, but I don't care about them or can use help, and larger places like supermarkets having "no cash" and "cash only" checkout lanes, the latter being faster. Have you experimented with not using your phone for a day or a week and seeing how far you get looking for alternatives? They're usually around, just not immediately apparent, like the "x" button on ads.
    - rvense 6y ago
      My (Android) phone is de-Googled, so no apps except from F-Droid, and I only use the one-time pad for the national SSO solution. Following a recent change, not having the SSO apps means I have to have use an extra password + SMS 2FA on many sites when I want to pay by credit card (the alternative being the SSO app). I don't drive, so I don't know for a fact about the parking situation, but people tell me some places are app-only. On a few occasions I've had to get my wife to pay for something using the app I mentioned, but it is becoming increasingly "weird" not to have it, and I see many classifieds specify that they only accept payment that way. I was almost cash-only for day-to-day stuff until Covid, but that's been the nail in the coffin. Technically businesses can't refuse cash, but many places will have signs asking you to pay by card, and I'm not going to be an arse about it to some 17-year-old behind the counter like an anti-masker. Thankfully almost everyone accepts credit/debit cards, but the alternatives are cheaper for businesses so maybe in a few years that will also become problematic, and the app-based solutions will have fully overtaken government cash. I feel like there should be an addition to basic human rights: Participation in the economy. It should not be a requirement for day-to-day life that one carries some tracking device and accepts thousands of pages of ToS from a private company. I can accept giving up many conveniences, but I feel like I should be able to have a place to live and buy food without a Google account.
anderspitman 6y ago
> At least we can hope terminal + tools as separate app bundles approach takes off. But think of all the wasted engineering hours that could have been spent doing something useful, but will instead be spent conforming to Android's draconian security policies. This would all be solved if there was a switch that allowed users to disable W^X protections for specific apps.
- higerordermap 6y ago
  Even if it required you to pass a Google interview (exaggerating), malicious actors will find a way to mislead 13yo kids through some youtube video or something.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

The majority doesn't decide what is done by the minority.

rvense 6y ago
It is increasingly impossible to live in my country without a number of apps that require an iOS device or an Android device with all the Google services enabled. There's one de facto monopoly payment app[0], a lot of places where you can't park without an app etc., but the big thing is we have a government mandated single sign-on solution. You can still get one-time-pads in the mail, but there's also an app, and some features of the service are now app only. The web allowed us to avoid a world where everyone had to own a Windows machine, but mobile phones are now making that a reality. [0] A privately owned replacement for cash, doesn't that just sound great...
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  Thank you for sharing your experience. My country is doing a soft migration, with some places now refusing cash, but I don't care about them or can use help, and larger places like supermarkets having "no cash" and "cash only" checkout lanes, the latter being faster. Have you experimented with not using your phone for a day or a week and seeing how far you get looking for alternatives? They're usually around, just not immediately apparent, like the "x" button on ads.
  - rvense 6y ago
    My (Android) phone is de-Googled, so no apps except from F-Droid, and I only use the one-time pad for the national SSO solution. Following a recent change, not having the SSO apps means I have to have use an extra password + SMS 2FA on many sites when I want to pay by credit card (the alternative being the SSO app). I don't drive, so I don't know for a fact about the parking situation, but people tell me some places are app-only. On a few occasions I've had to get my wife to pay for something using the app I mentioned, but it is becoming increasingly "weird" not to have it, and I see many classifieds specify that they only accept payment that way. I was almost cash-only for day-to-day stuff until Covid, but that's been the nail in the coffin. Technically businesses can't refuse cash, but many places will have signs asking you to pay by card, and I'm not going to be an arse about it to some 17-year-old behind the counter like an anti-masker. Thankfully almost everyone accepts credit/debit cards, but the alternatives are cheaper for businesses so maybe in a few years that will also become problematic, and the app-based solutions will have fully overtaken government cash. I feel like there should be an addition to basic human rights: Participation in the economy. It should not be a requirement for day-to-day life that one carries some tracking device and accepts thousands of pages of ToS from a private company. I can accept giving up many conveniences, but I feel like I should be able to have a place to live and buy food without a Google account.

anderspitman 6y ago

> At least we can hope terminal + tools as separate app bundles approach takes off. But think of all the wasted engineering hours that could have been spent doing something useful, but will instead be spent conforming to Android's draconian security policies. This would all be solved if there was a switch that allowed users to disable W^X protections for specific apps.

higerordermap 6y ago
Even if it required you to pass a Google interview (exaggerating), malicious actors will find a way to mislead 13yo kids through some youtube video or something.