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I'm on GitHub/Microsoft's side here. They are not responsible for the content of US export control laws, and they have an incredible amount to lose if they are

I'm on GitHub/Microsoft's side here. They are not responsible for the content of US export control laws, and they have an incredible amount to lose if they are found to be in violation of US export control laws. Presumably GitHub needs some automated tool to prevent inbound traffic from sanctioned countries, and it's hard to be certain that they are complying with US law if such automated tools have some wiggle room allowing for a non-zero amount of usage from sanctioned countries. The whole situation isn't great, but none of it is GitHub/Microsoft's fault.

zoobab 6y ago
Github does not respect Schrems2 neither.
u801e 6y ago
> They are not responsible for the content of US export control law But they are responsible for understanding what's required under those laws. If they're going beyond what's required to comply with the law, then those further actions are entirely on them.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Yes, so Github has to take on the assumption that they are visiting relatives, not resident in Iran. Or you get the alternate headline "Github facilitates Iran sanction evasion by allowing Iranian developers to mark themselves as 'visiting a relative'" and the associated charges.
  - u801e 6y ago
    There's nothing in the law that says that Github must block an entire company from accessing their company org because one member of that company logged into a separate account that happened to be a member of the company org. At most, the account that was accessed should be suspended.
f6v 6y ago
Companies routinely engage in activism. I’ve seen more than one software company cut off Trump campaign from their services, which was politically motivated. Now, US sanctions against Iran are clearly illegal. Yet, everyone is just fine with that, no activism whatsoever. I say people should revolt.
- necovek 6y ago
  I find your use of "illegal" interesting. To me, it means "against a law", and laws are made by countries (sure, parliaments of those countries or dictators or...), and generally apply only to that particular country (some things attempt to get a wider reach, but they are usually unenforceable unless there's a local company to pursue, most famous example being GDPR). There are international conventions and the UN, but countries do not have to be signatories or members to any of them. And I've never heard anyone use the term "illegal" in that sense before. So what do you mean with "clearly illegal"? (fwiw, I am very much against the US acting as the "policeman of the world", but sanctions are a political tool to make someone less powerful comply; beats an invasion and bombing that USA has frequently resorted to)
  - f6v 6y ago
    "Illegal" is routinely used when talked about sanctions. In that sense it means "unjustified".
    - jimbob45 6y ago
      No, you’re practicing Doublespeak. Illegality and illegitimacy are not the same thing.
wwtrv 6y ago
“ none of it is GitHub/Microsoft's fault.” Not really: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/118 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... pretty clearly states they don’t even need to ban that specific person let alone thr entire company.
jamesmishra 6y ago
Perhaps I spoke too soon. It looks like GitHub is able to do something about the issue. https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-github-is-fully-available-in-iran/ https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-g...

zoobab 6y ago

Github does not respect Schrems2 neither.

u801e 6y ago

> They are not responsible for the content of US export control law But they are responsible for understanding what's required under those laws. If they're going beyond what's required to comply with the law, then those further actions are entirely on them.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Yes, so Github has to take on the assumption that they are visiting relatives, not resident in Iran. Or you get the alternate headline "Github facilitates Iran sanction evasion by allowing Iranian developers to mark themselves as 'visiting a relative'" and the associated charges.
- u801e 6y ago
  There's nothing in the law that says that Github must block an entire company from accessing their company org because one member of that company logged into a separate account that happened to be a member of the company org. At most, the account that was accessed should be suspended.

f6v 6y ago

Companies routinely engage in activism. I’ve seen more than one software company cut off Trump campaign from their services, which was politically motivated. Now, US sanctions against Iran are clearly illegal. Yet, everyone is just fine with that, no activism whatsoever. I say people should revolt.

necovek 6y ago
I find your use of "illegal" interesting. To me, it means "against a law", and laws are made by countries (sure, parliaments of those countries or dictators or...), and generally apply only to that particular country (some things attempt to get a wider reach, but they are usually unenforceable unless there's a local company to pursue, most famous example being GDPR). There are international conventions and the UN, but countries do not have to be signatories or members to any of them. And I've never heard anyone use the term "illegal" in that sense before. So what do you mean with "clearly illegal"? (fwiw, I am very much against the US acting as the "policeman of the world", but sanctions are a political tool to make someone less powerful comply; beats an invasion and bombing that USA has frequently resorted to)
- f6v 6y ago
  "Illegal" is routinely used when talked about sanctions. In that sense it means "unjustified".
  - jimbob45 6y ago
    No, you’re practicing Doublespeak. Illegality and illegitimacy are not the same thing.

wwtrv 6y ago

“ none of it is GitHub/Microsoft's fault.” Not really: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/118 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... pretty clearly states they don’t even need to ban that specific person let alone thr entire company.

jamesmishra 6y ago

Perhaps I spoke too soon. It looks like GitHub is able to do something about the issue. https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-github-is-fully-available-in-iran/ https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-g...