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Hard limits to cash transactions exist in most countries around the world. For example, in France, as a business, you can't accept payment in cash above 1000€.

by brmgb 6y ago

Hard limits to cash transactions exist in most countries around the world. For example, in France, as a business, you can't accept payment in cash above 1000€. Between consumers, you need to produce an invoice. I personally deeply disagree with the EFF regarding FinCEN. From my point of view, the obligation imposed by the regulation strikes a good balance between protecting private life and fighting tax dodging and money laundering. Records only start at $3000 and reporting at $10000. This puts most transactions between individuals in the no reporting zone.

ajkdhcb2 6y ago
The extreme limits and AML regulations are quite a recent phenomenon.
avianlyric 6y ago
As someone that works in financial crime prevention, I think these rules are a very blunt instrument that will almost certainly do more harm than good. There have been banks in the past that have operated similar policies, and regulators have raked their senior leaders over the coals for implementing such naive rules. Transaction size alone tends to be an extremely weak signal for money laundering, but does tend to be a very strong single of high net wealth. Any criminal worth their salt will split up illicit transactions into smaller ones to avoid these types of rules, it’s money laundering 101.
- brmgb 6y ago
  > Any criminal worth their salt will split up illicit transactions into smaller ones to avoid these types of rules, it’s money laundering 101. FinCEN mandates that all transactions conducted by or or on behalf of the same person during the same business day have to be aggregated and the $10000 dollars limit is per individual not per account.
bouncycastle 6y ago
So if all >1000€ transactions need to be reported, that means that they need to be recorded in an electronic system. That data is recorded for the purpose of sharing with various institutions and agencies, and you do not know who will see that data or how long it will be shared for. There is basically no privacy for transactions above 1000€. Worse, that data can be hacked and leaked to the internet. Eg. Criminals will be able to see that last summer you bought an expensive watch, and know that you may be a good target. Such data has often been leaked to the internet before. There was a recent incident where the sales data for the Ledger cryptocurrency hardware wallet was hacked and leaked to the internet. Including names and addresses of people. I guess this stort of stuff will happen more frequently in the future.
- brmgb 6y ago
  > you do not know who will see that data or how long it will be shared for. Of course I know, these things are regulated separately. Sure, my bank could share it illegally but they could already have done that even without mandatory recording. > Worse, that data can be hacked and leaked to the internet. As could my fiscal declaration, my bank statement or all records of my transactions with any sellers. I personally am fine with my state mandating that large transactions between individuals have to be recorded for fiscal purpose in the same way that I'm fine with it imposing accounting standards to corporations and asking people to fill tax declarations.
  - bouncycastle 6y ago
    You're either naive or ignorant. You're personally fine, until your transactions are posted to the internet along with the address to where you live. Period. As for the regulation, things like the recent GDPR helped a little - if you are an EU citizen, you can now legally request them to provide a list of the time someone accessed your details. I recently did that with a financial provider and had a very unpleasant experience when I found out who they share the data with - basically companies and institutions I've never heard of, like credit score providers & other financial information data mining companies.
- el-salvador 6y ago
  It's similar where I live, but with a lower limit... Most transactions over US$100 are required to be linked to your ID number.
  - bouncycastle 6y ago
    That's basically financial oppression.

by brmgb 6y ago

ajkdhcb2 6y ago

The extreme limits and AML regulations are quite a recent phenomenon.

avianlyric 6y ago

As someone that works in financial crime prevention, I think these rules are a very blunt instrument that will almost certainly do more harm than good. There have been banks in the past that have operated similar policies, and regulators have raked their senior leaders over the coals for implementing such naive rules. Transaction size alone tends to be an extremely weak signal for money laundering, but does tend to be a very strong single of high net wealth. Any criminal worth their salt will split up illicit transactions into smaller ones to avoid these types of rules, it’s money laundering 101.

brmgb 6y ago
> Any criminal worth their salt will split up illicit transactions into smaller ones to avoid these types of rules, it’s money laundering 101. FinCEN mandates that all transactions conducted by or or on behalf of the same person during the same business day have to be aggregated and the $10000 dollars limit is per individual not per account.

bouncycastle 6y ago

So if all >1000€ transactions need to be reported, that means that they need to be recorded in an electronic system. That data is recorded for the purpose of sharing with various institutions and agencies, and you do not know who will see that data or how long it will be shared for. There is basically no privacy for transactions above 1000€. Worse, that data can be hacked and leaked to the internet. Eg. Criminals will be able to see that last summer you bought an expensive watch, and know that you may be a good target. Such data has often been leaked to the internet before. There was a recent incident where the sales data for the Ledger cryptocurrency hardware wallet was hacked and leaked to the internet. Including names and addresses of people. I guess this stort of stuff will happen more frequently in the future.

brmgb 6y ago
> you do not know who will see that data or how long it will be shared for. Of course I know, these things are regulated separately. Sure, my bank could share it illegally but they could already have done that even without mandatory recording. > Worse, that data can be hacked and leaked to the internet. As could my fiscal declaration, my bank statement or all records of my transactions with any sellers. I personally am fine with my state mandating that large transactions between individuals have to be recorded for fiscal purpose in the same way that I'm fine with it imposing accounting standards to corporations and asking people to fill tax declarations.
- bouncycastle 6y ago
  You're either naive or ignorant. You're personally fine, until your transactions are posted to the internet along with the address to where you live. Period. As for the regulation, things like the recent GDPR helped a little - if you are an EU citizen, you can now legally request them to provide a list of the time someone accessed your details. I recently did that with a financial provider and had a very unpleasant experience when I found out who they share the data with - basically companies and institutions I've never heard of, like credit score providers & other financial information data mining companies.
el-salvador 6y ago
It's similar where I live, but with a lower limit... Most transactions over US$100 are required to be linked to your ID number.
- bouncycastle 6y ago
  That's basically financial oppression.