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>>Poverty existed literal millennia before KYC. Sure, it'd be great to just end poverty, and when you do that we can talk about ending KYC. Maybe you're not un

>>Poverty existed literal millennia before KYC. Sure, it'd be great to just end poverty, and when you do that we can talk about ending KYC. Maybe you're not understanding what I'm saying, because the above has absolutely no relevance to the point I made. Another attempt: Poverty declines faster when economies grow faster. The financial exclusion created by the crude AML/KYC surveillance/risk-management measures you're advocating harms economic development and thereby slows poverty eradication. This in turn slows the eradication of vices like human trafficking, which are largely an outgrowth of poverty. >>There's a difference between putting a Muslim ethnic minority in concentration camps Strawman. The Communist authorities who you are emulating do more than just put a Muslim ethnic minority in concentration camps. They also impose a mass-surveillance system on them. https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/interactive/2019/05/02/china-how-mass-surveillance-works-xinjiang https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/interactive/2019/05/02/chin... They justify these invasions of privacy with the same kind of anti-terrorist rhetoric you're using. You're in the same ideological boat as them, and display the same callousness, which is characterized by comments like this: >>And yeah, that sucks for the people who were just trying to survive, but that failure is entirely on Somalia and Amal KYC goes against liberal democratic principles like privacy and due process, and should be opposed if you believe in these principles. It stands to reason that it does far more harm, in all respects, than good.

vorpalhex 6y ago
> This in turn slows the eradication of vices like human trafficking, which are largely an outgrowth of poverty. Human trafficking is not just a symptom of poverty, it's typically a symptom of a lack of law and order with strong systems that can deter human trafficking through a penal system. Giving human traffickers a bunch of cash isn't going to stop human trafficking. > KYC goes against liberal democratic principles like privacy and due process People in Somalia and Uzbekistan do not in any legal sense have privacy and due process. They do not live in Democratic regimes. Full stop. They have a moral right to those things, but it's on them to obtain it. The US is not responsible for making sure non-citizens/non-residents have those rights. The US is not the gatekeeper of the world. The US is responsible for guarding it's citizens and residents - and there are KYC controls in the US that enable due process and privacy. Yes, if you're outside the US you don't get those protections but you never had them to begin with. You are welcome to come to the US or our allies and gain those things. You can't force other people to transact with you. If we're freezing you out of an economic system because you keep giving money to extremists to kill women and children with, well, that just sucks to be you - you don't get to force us to trade with you. Take it up with your government.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  >Human trafficking is not just a symptom of poverty, It's obviously a result of multiple factors, but poverty is one of the major ones. And law-and-order generally improves as economies develop. A law that excludes countless people from the mainstream financial system inhibits economic development. >People in Somalia and Uzbekistan do not in any legal sense have privacy and due process. They have some degree of privacy and due process, and the industry you are championing reduces that for them, using the US's dominant role in the global financial system as a pressure lever. >You can't force other people to transact with you. You're forcing people in the US to not transact with people in Somalia. You're not a libertarian here. And AML/KYC laws violate privacy and due process rights domestically as well. It's not just international transactions that are affected by these laws. They are fundamentally laws that institute warrantless mass-surveillance. >If we're freezing you out of an economic system because you keep giving money to extremists to kill women and children with, well, that just sucks to be yo Once again, condemning people who have done no wrong, based something as crude as national association, and moreover, pretending you care about "women and children", while callously dismissing the devastating effect of financial exclusion caused by the policies that you are advocating remain-in/be-put-into effect, on millions of women children.

vorpalhex 6y ago

> This in turn slows the eradication of vices like human trafficking, which are largely an outgrowth of poverty. Human trafficking is not just a symptom of poverty, it's typically a symptom of a lack of law and order with strong systems that can deter human trafficking through a penal system. Giving human traffickers a bunch of cash isn't going to stop human trafficking. > KYC goes against liberal democratic principles like privacy and due process People in Somalia and Uzbekistan do not in any legal sense have privacy and due process. They do not live in Democratic regimes. Full stop. They have a moral right to those things, but it's on them to obtain it. The US is not responsible for making sure non-citizens/non-residents have those rights. The US is not the gatekeeper of the world. The US is responsible for guarding it's citizens and residents - and there are KYC controls in the US that enable due process and privacy. Yes, if you're outside the US you don't get those protections but you never had them to begin with. You are welcome to come to the US or our allies and gain those things. You can't force other people to transact with you. If we're freezing you out of an economic system because you keep giving money to extremists to kill women and children with, well, that just sucks to be you - you don't get to force us to trade with you. Take it up with your government.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
>Human trafficking is not just a symptom of poverty, It's obviously a result of multiple factors, but poverty is one of the major ones. And law-and-order generally improves as economies develop. A law that excludes countless people from the mainstream financial system inhibits economic development. >People in Somalia and Uzbekistan do not in any legal sense have privacy and due process. They have some degree of privacy and due process, and the industry you are championing reduces that for them, using the US's dominant role in the global financial system as a pressure lever. >You can't force other people to transact with you. You're forcing people in the US to not transact with people in Somalia. You're not a libertarian here. And AML/KYC laws violate privacy and due process rights domestically as well. It's not just international transactions that are affected by these laws. They are fundamentally laws that institute warrantless mass-surveillance. >If we're freezing you out of an economic system because you keep giving money to extremists to kill women and children with, well, that just sucks to be yo Once again, condemning people who have done no wrong, based something as crude as national association, and moreover, pretending you care about "women and children", while callously dismissing the devastating effect of financial exclusion caused by the policies that you are advocating remain-in/be-put-into effect, on millions of women children.