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Untrue. 1) This has always been allowed, but AB5 made it illegal. Then a shitton of industries got granted exceptions to it, and ride-hailing + food-delivery d

by Jommi 6y ago

Untrue. 1) This has always been allowed, but AB5 made it illegal. Then a shitton of industries got granted exceptions to it, and ride-hailing + food-delivery did the same. 2) Prop22 can be be amended only by a seven-eighths vote of the Legislature or a new ballot measure — AND state labor laws can be superseded by federal laws and regulations for enterprises that affect interstate commerce. Please stop spreading false information.

slg 6y ago
I answer point one here[1]. Point two is why I threw a "basically" in that sentence. Yes, you are technically correct that the state can change it with a 7/8ths majority. However requiring a supermajority that high is a nearly unprecedented requirement for the legislature and it is one that is going to be nearly impossible to achieve. I honestly don't know what you consider "false information" here beyond me saying "basically no way" for something to happen when it is realistically unfeasible. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25641377 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25641377
- Jommi 6y ago
  You realize many laws don't allow any legislative input at all right? By default, a law enacted by ballot measure can only be changed by another law enacted by ballot measure. You can go learn something about it from here: https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/initiative-and-referendum-processes.aspx#/ https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/initia...
  - m4eta 6y ago
    The will of the people will not be superceded. Why would we allow legislature to overpower a ballot measure? We voted. The only thing people can be upset about is their lack of educating themselves on what they were voting for in the ballot measure. People cannot be coddled when it comes to their vote. Any undue influence would rot the inside and then why have a democracy?
    - metabagel 6y ago
      It’s not practical for most voters to educate themselves on the typically dozen or so ballot measures. It’s too much homework, and you don’t get paid for it. I do my due diligence, but it’s not easy to get a full understanding of how I want to vote. It’s a significant amount of work, and a lot of people will not spend the time.
  - slg 6y ago
    >"I’ve looked at a lot of ballot measures over the years," said Moylan, adding that a two-thirds majority is common. >But a seven-eighths "super, super, super-duper majority," she said, "is new as far as I’m aware."[1] It is relatively standard for propositions to include some ways for the legislature to amend the law. It isn't a full legal requirement, but it is common. The a 7/8 majority is nearly impossible to reach on anything but the most milquetoast bills. That requirement was seemingly included so they supporters of the bill could feign that it was flexible while not really conceding any possibility of it being changed. If Prop 22 is going to be amended or repealed, it basically has to be done through the popular vote. [1] - https://calmatters.org/politics/post-it/2020/10/california-amendment-threshold-proposition-22/ https://calmatters.org/politics/post-it/2020/10/california-a...
    - Jommi 6y ago
      From the same article: >No surprise, many ballot measures do not say otherwise. Compared to that default, Prop. 22’s high bar for amendments actually gives the Legislature more influence than the norm. - >If Prop 22 is going to be amended or repealed, it basically has to be done through the popular vote. And how exactly is this a bad thing?
      - slg 6y ago
        Because the 7/8 majority is nothing but lip service to being flexible. It is designed to be used the exact way you are doing now in debates like this. A majority that high is not feasible to actually be implemented.
        Jommi 6y ago
        ??? Are you just ignoring everything we previously discussed? Having a way to directly amend the law via some majority is completely optional. There is no need to ever include that in the ballot proposition. Why are you choosing to completely ignore this clear fact?
        slg 6y ago

by Jommi 6y ago

slg 6y ago

I answer point one here[1]. Point two is why I threw a "basically" in that sentence. Yes, you are technically correct that the state can change it with a 7/8ths majority. However requiring a supermajority that high is a nearly unprecedented requirement for the legislature and it is one that is going to be nearly impossible to achieve. I honestly don't know what you consider "false information" here beyond me saying "basically no way" for something to happen when it is realistically unfeasible. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25641377 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25641377

Jommi 6y ago
You realize many laws don't allow any legislative input at all right? By default, a law enacted by ballot measure can only be changed by another law enacted by ballot measure. You can go learn something about it from here: https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/initiative-and-referendum-processes.aspx#/ https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/initia...
- m4eta 6y ago
  The will of the people will not be superceded. Why would we allow legislature to overpower a ballot measure? We voted. The only thing people can be upset about is their lack of educating themselves on what they were voting for in the ballot measure. People cannot be coddled when it comes to their vote. Any undue influence would rot the inside and then why have a democracy?
  - metabagel 6y ago
    It’s not practical for most voters to educate themselves on the typically dozen or so ballot measures. It’s too much homework, and you don’t get paid for it. I do my due diligence, but it’s not easy to get a full understanding of how I want to vote. It’s a significant amount of work, and a lot of people will not spend the time.
- slg 6y ago
  >"I’ve looked at a lot of ballot measures over the years," said Moylan, adding that a two-thirds majority is common. >But a seven-eighths "super, super, super-duper majority," she said, "is new as far as I’m aware."[1] It is relatively standard for propositions to include some ways for the legislature to amend the law. It isn't a full legal requirement, but it is common. The a 7/8 majority is nearly impossible to reach on anything but the most milquetoast bills. That requirement was seemingly included so they supporters of the bill could feign that it was flexible while not really conceding any possibility of it being changed. If Prop 22 is going to be amended or repealed, it basically has to be done through the popular vote. [1] - https://calmatters.org/politics/post-it/2020/10/california-amendment-threshold-proposition-22/ https://calmatters.org/politics/post-it/2020/10/california-a...
  - Jommi 6y ago
    From the same article: >No surprise, many ballot measures do not say otherwise. Compared to that default, Prop. 22’s high bar for amendments actually gives the Legislature more influence than the norm. - >If Prop 22 is going to be amended or repealed, it basically has to be done through the popular vote. And how exactly is this a bad thing?
    - slg 6y ago
      Because the 7/8 majority is nothing but lip service to being flexible. It is designed to be used the exact way you are doing now in debates like this. A majority that high is not feasible to actually be implemented.
      - Jommi 6y ago
        ??? Are you just ignoring everything we previously discussed? Having a way to directly amend the law via some majority is completely optional. There is no need to ever include that in the ballot proposition. Why are you choosing to completely ignore this clear fact?
        slg 6y ago