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Everyone is so against this move but it I was a grocery store I wouldn’t want this responsibility either. These stores are in the business of groceries, not del

Everyone is so against this move but it I was a grocery store I wouldn’t want this responsibility either. These stores are in the business of groceries, not delivery. They got into delivery because they had to and I’d imagine it was losing a lot of money and not to mention tough for them to accomplish and manage. Everyone else and their brother is moving to doordash white label because it makes the most sense. They focus on their core competency and allow doordash to focus on theirs. People are most upset about the health insurance aspect. The issues need to be decoupled.

kbar13 6y ago
i dont think anyone is arguing that grocery stores should run their own delivery service. the problem is that these delivery drivers / gig workers should be getting benefits and fair wages for essentially working full time jobs.
- whalesalad 6y ago
  No they shouldn’t. That will perpetuate the issue. Healthcare needs to move in the direction of being provided by the state or at least needs to be decoupled from your profession and affordable. The status quo is what needs to change. Gig economy work is going to take over. People need to insure and protect themselves. And it needs to be possible.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    If the government can get universal healthcare done, it can enforce better labor policies around gig work, even if it makes it unprofitable or substantially destroys demand for it. The gig economy is only going to take over if people keep voting for it. Lots of states and a federal government left to take up the issue.
    - whalesalad 6y ago
      People are voting for it by doing it. The work is absolutely exploding. Shipt cannot hire fast enough. They are handing out thousand dollar bonuses left and right. And I am in Metro Detroit, not a big area by any means.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        By voting for it, I mean codifying into law labor policies that strongly disadvantage workers (Prop 22). We’re supposedly a first world country; we should act like it with regards to labor regulation.
        Ericson2314 6y ago
        From a macro-economic perspective there is two very different "gig economies" - utopian: recognition that humans cannot do sustained productivity, higher experts in short bursts capture peak productivity, everyone works less overall - dystopian: automation makes more surplus labor, which reduces the incentive of further automation by hiring low productivity but dirt cheap labor. If everyone does this, and it isn't worth it to maintain yesterday's automation, overall productivity can go down. Unfortunately Americansn live in the second one. We are suburban squatters in the rotting ruins of our past greatness.
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    I agree, but there is great risk in letting the norms of what is a "decent and fair" standard of living degrade until the universal basic income and healthcare arrive.
    - Danieru 6y ago
      Except the majority of Americans are happy with their current situation[0]. They recognize improvements are required for other's, but personally don't dislike their situation. This is the core problem, and will not get fixed if everyone continues to be happy and content. Papering over the inefficacy by off loading the burden into other sectors is the exact cause of US's healthcare issue. For the political will to arrive it requires more people to become unhappy, you cannot cut an onion without tears. Or you can protect everyone and not change the system, that's what US has been doing for a hundred years. [0] https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/09/politics/gallup-private-health-insurance-satisfaction/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/09/politics/gallup-private-h... <- first duck duck go search result
bluedino 6y ago
>> People are most upset about the health insurance aspect. The issues need to be decoupled The employer should pay for it. It’s a benefit like retirement savings. If employers want better employees, they can offer fully-paid or low deductible plans to their employees. I do not want the US government running healthcare.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  Why, from first principles, should healthcare be tied to employment? Most other countries don't do it this way. That we do it here is just an accident of history (healthcare as a benefit is not treated as taxable).
- renewiltord 6y ago
  You're trapped in the present and unable to think of a better future. This is all better horse rhetoric: "horses should be trained to go drink their own water and poop in designated areas just like they can be trained to seek food". No. The right answer is to deregulate healthcare so that you can buy it from anywhere. You can still have your AMA-certified doctors, but if you can get other doctors as well, you'll be better off. The reason for that is that while wealthy people like the US middle class worry about the quality of care, everyone below them merely worries about access. Even care that is a fifth as good, if accessible will be superior to inaccessible care that is currently available.
- foogazi 6y ago
  The US government already runs housing, schools, retirement plans. But it doesn’t mean private lenders, private schools or private retirement companies have disappeared. The same US government incentivizes employer healthcare by allowing the deductibility of those benefits - which allows the healthcare industry to capture that money, and employers to trap employees.
Mountain_Skies 6y ago
Don't know about Vons nameplate stores, but their Pavilions stores offered delivery in the early/mid 90s. It wasn't as heavily used as today but did keep two fulltime employees booked up constantly. Since I no longer live in Southern California, I don't know if Pavilions has maintained this service continuously but suspect they have as it fits very well with their upscale customer focused business model.
dclaw 6y ago
This grocery store chain had delivery at various times going back over a decade. It has nothing to do with the pandemic.
- whalesalad 6y ago
  I grew up in California. I had friends who worked at Albertsons. I know that they had refrigerated trucks and tried to make it a thing. It never took off. They (all the local grocery chains) collectively wasted millions of dollars on their delivery systems.

kbar13 6y ago

i dont think anyone is arguing that grocery stores should run their own delivery service. the problem is that these delivery drivers / gig workers should be getting benefits and fair wages for essentially working full time jobs.

whalesalad 6y ago
No they shouldn’t. That will perpetuate the issue. Healthcare needs to move in the direction of being provided by the state or at least needs to be decoupled from your profession and affordable. The status quo is what needs to change. Gig economy work is going to take over. People need to insure and protect themselves. And it needs to be possible.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  If the government can get universal healthcare done, it can enforce better labor policies around gig work, even if it makes it unprofitable or substantially destroys demand for it. The gig economy is only going to take over if people keep voting for it. Lots of states and a federal government left to take up the issue.
  - whalesalad 6y ago
    People are voting for it by doing it. The work is absolutely exploding. Shipt cannot hire fast enough. They are handing out thousand dollar bonuses left and right. And I am in Metro Detroit, not a big area by any means.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      By voting for it, I mean codifying into law labor policies that strongly disadvantage workers (Prop 22). We’re supposedly a first world country; we should act like it with regards to labor regulation.
      - Ericson2314 6y ago
        From a macro-economic perspective there is two very different "gig economies" - utopian: recognition that humans cannot do sustained productivity, higher experts in short bursts capture peak productivity, everyone works less overall - dystopian: automation makes more surplus labor, which reduces the incentive of further automation by hiring low productivity but dirt cheap labor. If everyone does this, and it isn't worth it to maintain yesterday's automation, overall productivity can go down. Unfortunately Americansn live in the second one. We are suburban squatters in the rotting ruins of our past greatness.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  I agree, but there is great risk in letting the norms of what is a "decent and fair" standard of living degrade until the universal basic income and healthcare arrive.
  - Danieru 6y ago
    Except the majority of Americans are happy with their current situation[0]. They recognize improvements are required for other's, but personally don't dislike their situation. This is the core problem, and will not get fixed if everyone continues to be happy and content. Papering over the inefficacy by off loading the burden into other sectors is the exact cause of US's healthcare issue. For the political will to arrive it requires more people to become unhappy, you cannot cut an onion without tears. Or you can protect everyone and not change the system, that's what US has been doing for a hundred years. [0] https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/09/politics/gallup-private-health-insurance-satisfaction/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/09/politics/gallup-private-h... <- first duck duck go search result

bluedino 6y ago

>> People are most upset about the health insurance aspect. The issues need to be decoupled The employer should pay for it. It’s a benefit like retirement savings. If employers want better employees, they can offer fully-paid or low deductible plans to their employees. I do not want the US government running healthcare.

CydeWeys 6y ago
Why, from first principles, should healthcare be tied to employment? Most other countries don't do it this way. That we do it here is just an accident of history (healthcare as a benefit is not treated as taxable).
renewiltord 6y ago
You're trapped in the present and unable to think of a better future. This is all better horse rhetoric: "horses should be trained to go drink their own water and poop in designated areas just like they can be trained to seek food". No. The right answer is to deregulate healthcare so that you can buy it from anywhere. You can still have your AMA-certified doctors, but if you can get other doctors as well, you'll be better off. The reason for that is that while wealthy people like the US middle class worry about the quality of care, everyone below them merely worries about access. Even care that is a fifth as good, if accessible will be superior to inaccessible care that is currently available.
foogazi 6y ago
The US government already runs housing, schools, retirement plans. But it doesn’t mean private lenders, private schools or private retirement companies have disappeared. The same US government incentivizes employer healthcare by allowing the deductibility of those benefits - which allows the healthcare industry to capture that money, and employers to trap employees.

Mountain_Skies 6y ago

Don't know about Vons nameplate stores, but their Pavilions stores offered delivery in the early/mid 90s. It wasn't as heavily used as today but did keep two fulltime employees booked up constantly. Since I no longer live in Southern California, I don't know if Pavilions has maintained this service continuously but suspect they have as it fits very well with their upscale customer focused business model.

dclaw 6y ago

This grocery store chain had delivery at various times going back over a decade. It has nothing to do with the pandemic.

whalesalad 6y ago
I grew up in California. I had friends who worked at Albertsons. I know that they had refrigerated trucks and tried to make it a thing. It never took off. They (all the local grocery chains) collectively wasted millions of dollars on their delivery systems.