5 ms·

> the speed, efficiency, interoperability, and low cost associated with these products These are generally not considered features of Bitcoin.

londons_explore 6y ago
These will be private blockchains, not the public bitcoin network. They don't really have any benefits over a centralised database except sounding good to management.
- zalkota 6y ago
  No they will be public blockchains. There is over $2 billion USD currently moving around on ethereum in a stable coins.
- drchopchop 6y ago
  Exactly, and they have no incentive to make random public stablecoin bagholders rich.
  - tuesdayrain 6y ago
    I can assure you that no one is "bagholding stablecoins" in hopes to become rich.
janandonly 6y ago
Have you read anything about Bitcoin upgrades or new second or third layer solutions of the last four years? Liquid is a side chain that works with “blinded” amounts (so you can see a transaction but not an amount) and works with blocks every few seconds. Lightning is another second layer tech that allows transaction within seconds. RGB is a third layer tech on top of Lightning that allows you to create stable coins or other useful banking applications.
reilly3000 6y ago
True, but have you see the current state-of-the-art? It’s ACH.
- nwah1 6y ago
  ACH is free to the user, convenient, safe, well understood, and the energy requirements aren't insane. Any banks foolish enough to process cryptocurrency transactions will have to meet all the same banking requirements for anti-moneylaundering, anti-terrorism, rogue states, etc. These sort of requirements are part of the reason for delays. International transactions can also get delayed because of shoddy foreign banking servers which may simply be down. All of these problems remain, but an additional constraint of requiring consensus and hashing is imposed. This is a version of second system syndrome where even the naive variant doesn't sound good on paper.
  - reilly3000 6y ago
    Agreed that crypto and banking seem like oil and water for the issues you mentioned. ACH is far from safe. The keys are printed on every check, the transactions aren't reversible, the settlement times are practically untenable for business. I've sold and bought payroll services, charged my customers with ACH, paid vendors with ACH, read the gawdawful spec, and I haven't much good to say about it, other than it mostly works, and enough people know it well enough.
    - reilly3000 6y ago
      Further reading for the curious: The official rules: https://www.firstmid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2013-Corporate-Rules-and-Guidelines.pdf https://www.firstmid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2013-Cor... https://files.nc.gov/ncosc/documents/eCommerce/bank_of_america_nacha_file_specs.pdf https://files.nc.gov/ncosc/documents/eCommerce/bank_of_ameri... This is the cleanest implementation guide I've ever seen. Its a breeze compared to the former. Fraud issues: https://bankinnovation.net/allposts/focus/comp-reg/ach-is-a-sieve-of-fraud-that-needs-to-be-fixed/ https://bankinnovation.net/allposts/focus/comp-reg/ach-is-a-... A dev's take: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/85046/what-protections-are-put-in-place-to-prevent-ach-scams https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/85046/what-prot... > Note that ACH was never designed to fullfil the task it's currently used for.
intotheabyss 6y ago
They are referring to Ethereum, not Bitcoin.
ahallock 6y ago
You understand this is a vast space with many coins and technologies being developed, BTC being only one...

londons_explore 6y ago

These will be private blockchains, not the public bitcoin network. They don't really have any benefits over a centralised database except sounding good to management.

zalkota 6y ago
No they will be public blockchains. There is over $2 billion USD currently moving around on ethereum in a stable coins.
drchopchop 6y ago
Exactly, and they have no incentive to make random public stablecoin bagholders rich.
- tuesdayrain 6y ago
  I can assure you that no one is "bagholding stablecoins" in hopes to become rich.

janandonly 6y ago

Have you read anything about Bitcoin upgrades or new second or third layer solutions of the last four years? Liquid is a side chain that works with “blinded” amounts (so you can see a transaction but not an amount) and works with blocks every few seconds. Lightning is another second layer tech that allows transaction within seconds. RGB is a third layer tech on top of Lightning that allows you to create stable coins or other useful banking applications.

reilly3000 6y ago

True, but have you see the current state-of-the-art? It’s ACH.

nwah1 6y ago
ACH is free to the user, convenient, safe, well understood, and the energy requirements aren't insane. Any banks foolish enough to process cryptocurrency transactions will have to meet all the same banking requirements for anti-moneylaundering, anti-terrorism, rogue states, etc. These sort of requirements are part of the reason for delays. International transactions can also get delayed because of shoddy foreign banking servers which may simply be down. All of these problems remain, but an additional constraint of requiring consensus and hashing is imposed. This is a version of second system syndrome where even the naive variant doesn't sound good on paper.
- reilly3000 6y ago
  Agreed that crypto and banking seem like oil and water for the issues you mentioned. ACH is far from safe. The keys are printed on every check, the transactions aren't reversible, the settlement times are practically untenable for business. I've sold and bought payroll services, charged my customers with ACH, paid vendors with ACH, read the gawdawful spec, and I haven't much good to say about it, other than it mostly works, and enough people know it well enough.
  - reilly3000 6y ago
    Further reading for the curious: The official rules: https://www.firstmid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2013-Corporate-Rules-and-Guidelines.pdf https://www.firstmid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2013-Cor... https://files.nc.gov/ncosc/documents/eCommerce/bank_of_america_nacha_file_specs.pdf https://files.nc.gov/ncosc/documents/eCommerce/bank_of_ameri... This is the cleanest implementation guide I've ever seen. Its a breeze compared to the former. Fraud issues: https://bankinnovation.net/allposts/focus/comp-reg/ach-is-a-sieve-of-fraud-that-needs-to-be-fixed/ https://bankinnovation.net/allposts/focus/comp-reg/ach-is-a-... A dev's take: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/85046/what-protections-are-put-in-place-to-prevent-ach-scams https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/85046/what-prot... > Note that ACH was never designed to fullfil the task it's currently used for.

intotheabyss 6y ago

They are referring to Ethereum, not Bitcoin.

ahallock 6y ago

You understand this is a vast space with many coins and technologies being developed, BTC being only one...