3 ms·

Why student loans are not like subprime mortgages

9 points by wallflower 16y ago

wccrawford 16y ago
So to boil that down, it's not the same because you can't sell or trade a diploma, and you can't go bankrupt to get out of the debt. ... Doesn't that just make it worse? Oh wait, there was one more. He claims that a degree is a 'guarantor' of better wages your whole life. That's obviously not true. On the average, people with degrees get paid more. But there are plenty who have lesser jobs than those without... And even some that have no job. I personally went over a year jobless, and then half a year working as a stock clerk, after I graduated from college. In the end, my degree did not get me the job. My skills did. Skills that I had before I got the paper.
MarkPNeyer 16y ago
Imagine having an eager young pupil who would watch you code and point out simple mistakes (spelling errors) while you explained to her what you were doing and why. The pupil would learn much faster about how code works and what the 'work world' is like than they would in college, and you get valuable programming help. They used to call this sort of thing an apprenticeship - why don't we do that any more?
- wccrawford 16y ago
  It's called pair programming and it's very much alive and well. Personally, I think it works better between equals, but many say it works for master and apprentice as well.
vannevar 16y ago
Finally a voice of reason amid the hysterical hyperbole. No, higher education is not a bubble. It can't be, because there is no market for degrees. They can be produced and they can be bought, but they cannot be resold. It amazes me that so many otherwise intelligent people can't grasp this glaring difference with the housing market.
noelchurchill 16y ago
I don't think anyone believes there is actually a bubble in diplomas. Obviously there aren't any DBS's (diploma backed securities), or diploma flipping schemes. However you might be able to make the case that there is a bubble related to university costs, or the market for university grads. Tuition costs continue to rise while wages remain stagnant and jobless rates remain high. If this trend continues long enough, the demand for diplomas is bound to go down and universities will be forced to lower their costs.
ihumanable 16y ago
I think what a lot of people feel about higher education can be boiled down to a fairly simple system: 1) The industrial base of the country, for better or worse, was moved overseas 2) Upward mobility became intertwined with Higher Education, as a child of the 90's the constant drum beat of "Go to college, go to college, go to college" was deafening. 3) A lot of people who would not normally go to college or have no interest in furthering their education go anyhow because of the promise of a better future. 4) These people lack a certain passion for their education and field, they are not there because of a love of their subject but because of a love of money (which is nothing to be ashamed about, although I love computers and math I also enjoy money and do whatever I can to maximize the amount of it that I have, within reason). 5) These newly minted graduates that entered college without clear direction and with little passion find themselves with a load of debt and with little idea of what to do. They were promised "good jobs" but without some concrete idea or drive they end up aimlessly trying to find anything that requires a college degree. TL;DR The road to prosperity got harder and a lot of people that had no real desire to be on that road in the first place are upset about it. Post Script: Of course this doesn't mean to say that there aren't people legitimately passionate about their field that are having troubles finding meaningful employment.

9 points by wallflower 16y ago

So to boil that down, it's not the same because you can't sell or trade a diploma, and you can't go bankrupt to get out of the debt. ... Doesn't that just make it worse? Oh wait, there was one more. He claims that a degree is a 'guarantor' of better wages your whole life. That's obviously not true. On the average, people with degrees get paid more. But there are plenty who have lesser jobs than those without... And even some that have no job. I personally went over a year jobless, and then half a year working as a stock clerk, after I graduated from college. In the end, my degree did not get me the job. My skills did. Skills that I had before I got the paper.

MarkPNeyer 16y ago

Imagine having an eager young pupil who would watch you code and point out simple mistakes (spelling errors) while you explained to her what you were doing and why. The pupil would learn much faster about how code works and what the 'work world' is like than they would in college, and you get valuable programming help. They used to call this sort of thing an apprenticeship - why don't we do that any more?

wccrawford 16y ago
It's called pair programming and it's very much alive and well. Personally, I think it works better between equals, but many say it works for master and apprentice as well.

vannevar 16y ago

Finally a voice of reason amid the hysterical hyperbole. No, higher education is not a bubble. It can't be, because there is no market for degrees. They can be produced and they can be bought, but they cannot be resold. It amazes me that so many otherwise intelligent people can't grasp this glaring difference with the housing market.

noelchurchill 16y ago

I don't think anyone believes there is actually a bubble in diplomas. Obviously there aren't any DBS's (diploma backed securities), or diploma flipping schemes. However you might be able to make the case that there is a bubble related to university costs, or the market for university grads. Tuition costs continue to rise while wages remain stagnant and jobless rates remain high. If this trend continues long enough, the demand for diplomas is bound to go down and universities will be forced to lower their costs.

ihumanable 16y ago

I think what a lot of people feel about higher education can be boiled down to a fairly simple system: 1) The industrial base of the country, for better or worse, was moved overseas 2) Upward mobility became intertwined with Higher Education, as a child of the 90's the constant drum beat of "Go to college, go to college, go to college" was deafening. 3) A lot of people who would not normally go to college or have no interest in furthering their education go anyhow because of the promise of a better future. 4) These people lack a certain passion for their education and field, they are not there because of a love of their subject but because of a love of money (which is nothing to be ashamed about, although I love computers and math I also enjoy money and do whatever I can to maximize the amount of it that I have, within reason). 5) These newly minted graduates that entered college without clear direction and with little passion find themselves with a load of debt and with little idea of what to do. They were promised "good jobs" but without some concrete idea or drive they end up aimlessly trying to find anything that requires a college degree. TL;DR The road to prosperity got harder and a lot of people that had no real desire to be on that road in the first place are upset about it. Post Script: Of course this doesn't mean to say that there aren't people legitimately passionate about their field that are having troubles finding meaningful employment.