4 ms·

And yet you can identify no real alternative. Last I checked Apple is the only company with a consumer-grade operating system that (1) has refused to turn over

And yet you can identify no real alternative. Last I checked Apple is the only company with a consumer-grade operating system that (1) has refused to turn over user data even after legal challenges from the federal government and (2) doesn’t generate revenues from advertising and selling user data.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
Are you ignoring alternatives like Debian and PureOS? They may not be as widely used but they exist.
f430 6y ago
> And yet you can identify no real alternative. Qubes/Whonix/Tails or any hardened linux distros is a practical and widely accepted alternative in the security field. To my knowledge I don't think I recall anybody using a comprehensive "pen test" framework on a Mac. > has refused to turn over user data even after legal challenges from the federal government While this is true, it never stopped the agencies from getting their data through other means. There is a company in Israel that specializes in unlocking iPhone data. It recently lead to the arrest of a child sex cult ring in South Korea. > doesn’t generate revenues from advertising and selling user data. neither does Microsoft if you consider the metrics are used internally and using it to optimize their product to maximize revenues. I will agree that it is less pervasive than Google or Facebook.
- yborg 6y ago
  And these alternate solutions lack 75% of the functionality available to customers of Apple products. It isn't that these customers are all clueless dunces, many of them look at the tradeoffs and if they are living in a country with some citizen rights conclude that the risk is acceptable given the magnitude of the tradeoff.
est31 6y ago
> has refused to turn over user data You don't need to turn over any data if you transmit which programs people start in the clear, unencrypted, easily observable, to one of your servers. And they do turn it over. They tried to make icloud end to end encrypted but then didn't do it at the behest of the US government. They employ the same tactics as zoom by claiming that icloud is encrypted, trying to make people believe that it's end to end encrypted. The encryption key still sits with them though. Yes, there are some high profile cases where they very publicly refused the feds. Got a lot of publicity. That was their main goal, to paint an image of them not turning over user data. Maybe apple indeed collects less user data than Google. But they still collect many things, and it's way harder to escape apple's collection than to escape Google's collection as their OSs are so locked down.
sneak 6y ago
> has refused to turn over user data even after legal challenges from the federal government Apple turned over the user data of over 30,000 customers without a warrant to the US government in 2019, per their own transparency report (see under FISA). Apple also does not end to end encrypt device backups specifically to aid the FBI. You have subscribed to a false narrative.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

Are you ignoring alternatives like Debian and PureOS? They may not be as widely used but they exist.

f430 6y ago

> And yet you can identify no real alternative. Qubes/Whonix/Tails or any hardened linux distros is a practical and widely accepted alternative in the security field. To my knowledge I don't think I recall anybody using a comprehensive "pen test" framework on a Mac. > has refused to turn over user data even after legal challenges from the federal government While this is true, it never stopped the agencies from getting their data through other means. There is a company in Israel that specializes in unlocking iPhone data. It recently lead to the arrest of a child sex cult ring in South Korea. > doesn’t generate revenues from advertising and selling user data. neither does Microsoft if you consider the metrics are used internally and using it to optimize their product to maximize revenues. I will agree that it is less pervasive than Google or Facebook.

yborg 6y ago
And these alternate solutions lack 75% of the functionality available to customers of Apple products. It isn't that these customers are all clueless dunces, many of them look at the tradeoffs and if they are living in a country with some citizen rights conclude that the risk is acceptable given the magnitude of the tradeoff.

est31 6y ago

> has refused to turn over user data You don't need to turn over any data if you transmit which programs people start in the clear, unencrypted, easily observable, to one of your servers. And they do turn it over. They tried to make icloud end to end encrypted but then didn't do it at the behest of the US government. They employ the same tactics as zoom by claiming that icloud is encrypted, trying to make people believe that it's end to end encrypted. The encryption key still sits with them though. Yes, there are some high profile cases where they very publicly refused the feds. Got a lot of publicity. That was their main goal, to paint an image of them not turning over user data. Maybe apple indeed collects less user data than Google. But they still collect many things, and it's way harder to escape apple's collection than to escape Google's collection as their OSs are so locked down.

sneak 6y ago

> has refused to turn over user data even after legal challenges from the federal government Apple turned over the user data of over 30,000 customers without a warrant to the US government in 2019, per their own transparency report (see under FISA). Apple also does not end to end encrypt device backups specifically to aid the FBI. You have subscribed to a false narrative.