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But you're also worse off because your employment contributes to shareholder profits rather than your own wages. Why don't you care about that? Particularly wh

But you're also worse off because your employment contributes to shareholder profits rather than your own wages. Why don't you care about that? Particularly when these profits are likely far higher than any union dues.

stale2002 6y ago
I will repeat again. The person claimed that I would not be worse off. And that person was wrong. And I have described specifically how I would be worse off. You keep trying to redirect to something that is not relevant. The relevant question was whether or not I would be worse off with a union. And the answer is that I have giving an exact answer as to how I would be worse off. Glad that you agree that the original person was wrong, and that I was right on how I would be worse off. Nothing that you said at all disagrees with me regarding this specific issue. You have made no statement that disagrees with the true fact that I would be worse off by having to be under the union contract." This conversation is about whether or not people are harmed by unions in this way, and bringing up irrelevant stuff does not change that. Nothing that you said is an actual convincing argument as for why unions do not harm me, when I have laid out specifically how it makes my situation worse.
- djrobstep 6y ago
  I'm simply asking you why you're very bothered by union dues, but not by shareholder dues. Why not give a straight answer? To address your better off vs worse off question: You'll be better off as a union member, through the superior negotiating power of collective bargaining.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > I'm simply asking you why you're very bothered by union dues, but not by shareholder dues I said nothing of the sort. Instead I responded to someone who claimed that unions make me no worse off. And I have described how that is false. That is the only thing that I have said. Please do not put words into my mouth or say that I said things, when I did not say them. Can you please stop lying about me saying anything, when I have been extremely clear regarding my original statement? It seems like you do not disagree with me that the original person is wrong though. > You'll be better off as a union member, through the superior negotiating power of collective bargaining Not if I don't want that contract, or if I don't want to engage in collective bargaining, that I am now forced to join if I want to keep my job. There are many things in actual real life examples of union contracts that I would strongly oppose. And no, I will not accept you talking about some hypothetical union contract that does not exist, where you claim that this non standard union contract, that has none of the bad things that I brought up, would help. The only thing that I will accept as arguments, as for why unions are good or bad, is actual real life examples of contracts that have been enacted in the real world, because anything else is just a story that someone made up in their head. And there are many examples of concrete real union contracts that I would absolutely not support. > Why not give a straight answer? A straight answer to things that you are lying about, that I did not say? I have already given you a straight answer about exactly what I believe, and that I have made no comments on any completely irreverent thing that do not disagree with what I said.
    - djrobstep 6y ago
      > I said nothing of the sort. You don't need to say it directly. It's obvious from your tone that you're bothered. > Not if I don't want that contract, or if I don't want to engage in collective bargaining, that I am now forced to join if I want to keep my job. You don't want higher pay?
      - stale2002 6y ago
        > You don't want higher pay? What I don't want is union contracts, which have many very significant drawbacks, in the real world, that have nothing to do with pay. There are many real world examples of union contracts that have very serious issues, regarding many things not related to pay at all. And yes, I get to point to the problems that I see in real world examples of union contracts, because anything else about some hypothetical that does not exist, is just a story that someone made up in their head.

stale2002 6y ago

I will repeat again. The person claimed that I would not be worse off. And that person was wrong. And I have described specifically how I would be worse off. You keep trying to redirect to something that is not relevant. The relevant question was whether or not I would be worse off with a union. And the answer is that I have giving an exact answer as to how I would be worse off. Glad that you agree that the original person was wrong, and that I was right on how I would be worse off. Nothing that you said at all disagrees with me regarding this specific issue. You have made no statement that disagrees with the true fact that I would be worse off by having to be under the union contract." This conversation is about whether or not people are harmed by unions in this way, and bringing up irrelevant stuff does not change that. Nothing that you said is an actual convincing argument as for why unions do not harm me, when I have laid out specifically how it makes my situation worse.

djrobstep 6y ago
I'm simply asking you why you're very bothered by union dues, but not by shareholder dues. Why not give a straight answer? To address your better off vs worse off question: You'll be better off as a union member, through the superior negotiating power of collective bargaining.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > I'm simply asking you why you're very bothered by union dues, but not by shareholder dues I said nothing of the sort. Instead I responded to someone who claimed that unions make me no worse off. And I have described how that is false. That is the only thing that I have said. Please do not put words into my mouth or say that I said things, when I did not say them. Can you please stop lying about me saying anything, when I have been extremely clear regarding my original statement? It seems like you do not disagree with me that the original person is wrong though. > You'll be better off as a union member, through the superior negotiating power of collective bargaining Not if I don't want that contract, or if I don't want to engage in collective bargaining, that I am now forced to join if I want to keep my job. There are many things in actual real life examples of union contracts that I would strongly oppose. And no, I will not accept you talking about some hypothetical union contract that does not exist, where you claim that this non standard union contract, that has none of the bad things that I brought up, would help. The only thing that I will accept as arguments, as for why unions are good or bad, is actual real life examples of contracts that have been enacted in the real world, because anything else is just a story that someone made up in their head. And there are many examples of concrete real union contracts that I would absolutely not support. > Why not give a straight answer? A straight answer to things that you are lying about, that I did not say? I have already given you a straight answer about exactly what I believe, and that I have made no comments on any completely irreverent thing that do not disagree with what I said.
  - djrobstep 6y ago
    > I said nothing of the sort. You don't need to say it directly. It's obvious from your tone that you're bothered. > Not if I don't want that contract, or if I don't want to engage in collective bargaining, that I am now forced to join if I want to keep my job. You don't want higher pay?
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > You don't want higher pay? What I don't want is union contracts, which have many very significant drawbacks, in the real world, that have nothing to do with pay. There are many real world examples of union contracts that have very serious issues, regarding many things not related to pay at all. And yes, I get to point to the problems that I see in real world examples of union contracts, because anything else about some hypothetical that does not exist, is just a story that someone made up in their head.