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> Unlike in the U.S., in China, being rich doesn’t protect you from being punished by the government. That's great, I wonder that others think of this.

leesalminen 6y ago
Funny because I’m sure some would read that sentence and conclude it’s a good thing.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  It might be a good thing, if it was just “Privileged position doesn’t get you out of justice” and not “Privileged position doesn’t map as directly to wealth”. (That also, of course, assumes that being targeted by the government in either case maps well to some concept of justice.)
  - leesalminen 6y ago
    Right, yeah, it left out all the context is what I’m getting at. Being able to criticize the government is paramount to western ideals. That’s about the only thing you can’t do in China with enough money.
- simlevesque 6y ago
  I did. Tell me why the US protecting those with money is a good thing.
  - leesalminen 6y ago
    You can also get away with all sorts of illegal and terrible things in China with enough money, just like anywhere else. But, in China, you can’t criticize the government no matter how poor or rich you are. That’s the only reason Ma disappeared- he defied the government. Not to say bad things don’t happen to dissenters in the US but it’s not a matter of course like China. IMHO, being able to criticize the government publicly without being disappeared is paramount to our ideals of society. The article’s interpretation left out all that context.
    - simlevesque 6y ago
      Yeah but that's another point totally. I still don't think that allowing only those with money to criticize our government is something to be proud of.
      - leesalminen 6y ago
        No, you missed the point. In the US, everyone can criticize the government and the rich can break many laws. In China, nobody can criticize the government and the rich can break most laws. The only difference is that nobody in China can criticize the government. Rich people can break many/most laws in just about every country on earth. That’s universal. Do you understand now?
        simlevesque 6y ago
        > The only difference is that nobody in China can criticize the government. In contrast to here in America where only some of us can criticize the government. How is that supposed to help me ?
        leesalminen 6y ago
        You’re still missing what I’m saying. Anyone in the US can legally and publicly criticize any level of our government without fear of reprisal. In almost all cases.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Anyone in the US can legally and publicly criticize any level of our government without fear of reprisal. Both the internal statements by violent right-wing counter-demonstrators about widespread expectation of police tacit support without need for direct coordination that came to light and the actual police behavior toward violent right-wing counter-demonstrators in many cases during the recent BLM protests demonstrate that that certainly isn't true in substantial, recently-salient cases.
uncoder0 6y ago
It's not really even true. There is one thing you can't get away with if you're wealthy in China and that is criticizing the CCP. You can get away will all sorts of awful things with a little Hongbao but, I'm not going to link sources as I'd get flagged/down'd by the sympathizers.
- Igelau 6y ago
  > I'm not going to link sources as I'd get flagged/down'd by the sympathizers. So what? To hell with fake internet points. Speak truth to downvoters or GTFO.
  - jkhdigital 6y ago
    Hahaha you think they want the truth. Truth just gets double downvotes.
  - ldiracdelta 6y ago
    Brilliant.
    - uncoder0 6y ago
      Agreed, the two dead comments in reply to mine are a perfect illustration of my point.
Igelau 6y ago
I guess they were trying to be cute?
- leesalminen 6y ago
  No, US media has some sort of infatuation with China right now. I think they figure if they kowtow enough they’ll get access to that sweet China market.
  - seppin 6y ago
    Perhaps a rising superpower that both sells you every plastic trinket you own and operates concentration camps is story people want to read about.
    - leesalminen 6y ago
      I’d focus on the concentration camps and leave out the cuteness. Maybe that’s just me?
      - seppin 6y ago
        I'm sorry are you implying the headline "Jack Ma is Missing" is cute?
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > No, US media has some sort of infatuation with China right now Now? I've seen this since 2014 when the Yellow Movement happened in Hong Kong, and I was living in a jungle on an Island in the middle of the Pacific. What World are you living on that you didn't see the rise of a tyrannical juggernaut that had no qualms intervening in affairs of it's neighbors to flex its power on the World stage, and kicking sand in the face of people's metaphorical face when it came to Human Rights abuses all while using its populace as slave labour, debasing its currency to create ghost towns with massive cheap fiat and calling it prosperity while the CCP controlled Industries sourced endless amounts of funding from Elites in the West that systemically undercut most local and small businesses? No, I'd say most people who believe that China is only now in the Media are the problem as they didn't see the obvious and thought buying cheap disposable goods from China would never ensure that manufacturing base of most countries would be centralized and create a massive central point of failure which would put supply chains in a very detrimental position and in the hands of the CCP. COVID only happened to expose just how deadly this was, but this was very clear to see if you bothered to look at China's behaviour in the last 2 decades. Sinophobia, as it were, isn't what I think should be the focus as I honestly have a great deal of sympathy and sorrow for the plight of the average Chinese citizen who is simply trying to get ahead in what is a short window in what has otherwise been a state of poverty, wide spread perpetual misery and economic despair coupled with countless purges and Civil warfare. And before I get accused of being racist: its worth noting that one side of my family has it's origin in Guangzhou.
ekianjo 6y ago
> That's great, I wonder that others think of this. You don't understand. It means that in China basically EVERYONE is at the mercy of the government, not just the rich. You just don't read about the anonymous ones they crush every day, and then you find them in your 'Real Body' exhibitions around the world.
- simlevesque 6y ago
  Yeah, so they just treat everyone equally. Equally bad, that's right, but do you want me to cheer for the US where money creates this enormous shield against everything while we are left to suffer ? I'm not buying it.
  - leesalminen 6y ago
    Again, you’re missing the point. Rich people in China commit all kinds of crimes to varying degrees of severity just like every other country.
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    > but do you want me to cheer for the US where money creates this enormous shield against everything Ever heard of Jeffrey Epstein? It was not that long ago.
- volgo 6y ago
  That’s good, everyone should play by the same rule. The rich billionaires should know they can be squashed at any time if they bend the rules
  - garmaine 6y ago
    He didn’t bend the rules. He had the audacity to voice an opinion.
    - volgo 6y ago
      So did Martin Skrehli. Your point? Publicly fighting with regulators is a bad idea, I’m anywhere in the world, o matter how rich you are
seppin 6y ago
It's BS. Jeffrey Epstein was rich. John McAfee too.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
lazyjones 6y ago
In 2021 I don't believe it's strictly true that you have to be in China for this to happen, if you criticize the Party.
jariel 6y ago
It's not true, and 'criticizing the government' should not be a crime anywhere. There are plenty of 'Rich People' in US jails.

leesalminen 6y ago

Funny because I’m sure some would read that sentence and conclude it’s a good thing.

dragonwriter 6y ago
It might be a good thing, if it was just “Privileged position doesn’t get you out of justice” and not “Privileged position doesn’t map as directly to wealth”. (That also, of course, assumes that being targeted by the government in either case maps well to some concept of justice.)
- leesalminen 6y ago
  Right, yeah, it left out all the context is what I’m getting at. Being able to criticize the government is paramount to western ideals. That’s about the only thing you can’t do in China with enough money.
simlevesque 6y ago
I did. Tell me why the US protecting those with money is a good thing.
- leesalminen 6y ago
  You can also get away with all sorts of illegal and terrible things in China with enough money, just like anywhere else. But, in China, you can’t criticize the government no matter how poor or rich you are. That’s the only reason Ma disappeared- he defied the government. Not to say bad things don’t happen to dissenters in the US but it’s not a matter of course like China. IMHO, being able to criticize the government publicly without being disappeared is paramount to our ideals of society. The article’s interpretation left out all that context.
  - simlevesque 6y ago
    Yeah but that's another point totally. I still don't think that allowing only those with money to criticize our government is something to be proud of.
    - leesalminen 6y ago
      No, you missed the point. In the US, everyone can criticize the government and the rich can break many laws. In China, nobody can criticize the government and the rich can break most laws. The only difference is that nobody in China can criticize the government. Rich people can break many/most laws in just about every country on earth. That’s universal. Do you understand now?
      - simlevesque 6y ago
        > The only difference is that nobody in China can criticize the government. In contrast to here in America where only some of us can criticize the government. How is that supposed to help me ?
        leesalminen 6y ago
        You’re still missing what I’m saying. Anyone in the US can legally and publicly criticize any level of our government without fear of reprisal. In almost all cases.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Anyone in the US can legally and publicly criticize any level of our government without fear of reprisal. Both the internal statements by violent right-wing counter-demonstrators about widespread expectation of police tacit support without need for direct coordination that came to light and the actual police behavior toward violent right-wing counter-demonstrators in many cases during the recent BLM protests demonstrate that that certainly isn't true in substantial, recently-salient cases.

uncoder0 6y ago

It's not really even true. There is one thing you can't get away with if you're wealthy in China and that is criticizing the CCP. You can get away will all sorts of awful things with a little Hongbao but, I'm not going to link sources as I'd get flagged/down'd by the sympathizers.

Igelau 6y ago
> I'm not going to link sources as I'd get flagged/down'd by the sympathizers. So what? To hell with fake internet points. Speak truth to downvoters or GTFO.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Hahaha you think they want the truth. Truth just gets double downvotes.
- ldiracdelta 6y ago
  Brilliant.
  - uncoder0 6y ago
    Agreed, the two dead comments in reply to mine are a perfect illustration of my point.

Igelau 6y ago

I guess they were trying to be cute?

leesalminen 6y ago
No, US media has some sort of infatuation with China right now. I think they figure if they kowtow enough they’ll get access to that sweet China market.
- seppin 6y ago
  Perhaps a rising superpower that both sells you every plastic trinket you own and operates concentration camps is story people want to read about.
  - leesalminen 6y ago
    I’d focus on the concentration camps and leave out the cuteness. Maybe that’s just me?
    - seppin 6y ago
      I'm sorry are you implying the headline "Jack Ma is Missing" is cute?
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > No, US media has some sort of infatuation with China right now Now? I've seen this since 2014 when the Yellow Movement happened in Hong Kong, and I was living in a jungle on an Island in the middle of the Pacific. What World are you living on that you didn't see the rise of a tyrannical juggernaut that had no qualms intervening in affairs of it's neighbors to flex its power on the World stage, and kicking sand in the face of people's metaphorical face when it came to Human Rights abuses all while using its populace as slave labour, debasing its currency to create ghost towns with massive cheap fiat and calling it prosperity while the CCP controlled Industries sourced endless amounts of funding from Elites in the West that systemically undercut most local and small businesses? No, I'd say most people who believe that China is only now in the Media are the problem as they didn't see the obvious and thought buying cheap disposable goods from China would never ensure that manufacturing base of most countries would be centralized and create a massive central point of failure which would put supply chains in a very detrimental position and in the hands of the CCP. COVID only happened to expose just how deadly this was, but this was very clear to see if you bothered to look at China's behaviour in the last 2 decades. Sinophobia, as it were, isn't what I think should be the focus as I honestly have a great deal of sympathy and sorrow for the plight of the average Chinese citizen who is simply trying to get ahead in what is a short window in what has otherwise been a state of poverty, wide spread perpetual misery and economic despair coupled with countless purges and Civil warfare. And before I get accused of being racist: its worth noting that one side of my family has it's origin in Guangzhou.

ekianjo 6y ago

> That's great, I wonder that others think of this. You don't understand. It means that in China basically EVERYONE is at the mercy of the government, not just the rich. You just don't read about the anonymous ones they crush every day, and then you find them in your 'Real Body' exhibitions around the world.

simlevesque 6y ago
Yeah, so they just treat everyone equally. Equally bad, that's right, but do you want me to cheer for the US where money creates this enormous shield against everything while we are left to suffer ? I'm not buying it.
- leesalminen 6y ago
  Again, you’re missing the point. Rich people in China commit all kinds of crimes to varying degrees of severity just like every other country.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > but do you want me to cheer for the US where money creates this enormous shield against everything Ever heard of Jeffrey Epstein? It was not that long ago.
volgo 6y ago
That’s good, everyone should play by the same rule. The rich billionaires should know they can be squashed at any time if they bend the rules
- garmaine 6y ago
  He didn’t bend the rules. He had the audacity to voice an opinion.
  - volgo 6y ago
    So did Martin Skrehli. Your point? Publicly fighting with regulators is a bad idea, I’m anywhere in the world, o matter how rich you are

seppin 6y ago

It's BS. Jeffrey Epstein was rich. John McAfee too.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

lazyjones 6y ago

In 2021 I don't believe it's strictly true that you have to be in China for this to happen, if you criticize the Party.

jariel 6y ago

It's not true, and 'criticizing the government' should not be a crime anywhere. There are plenty of 'Rich People' in US jails.