6 ms·

An Analysis of Privacy on the App Store

36 points by wallflower 6y ago

definitelyhuman 6y ago
No surprise who the top collector is (Free & FB) but I am surprised the whole Gaming category was omitted. Lots of trackers and tracking in games, especially ad supported [Edit] Author update to capture gaming, leaving the comment up for context
- K0nserv 6y ago
  Hey, author here. Good point, I did look at it some initially but because it's now separate from the rest of the categories on the App Store I must've glossed over it in the end. I'll make sure to include it in the follow up post that I am planning. EDIT: You we're spot on. I added the Games(Free) data and it dethroned Shopping(Free) as the worst chart with a mean number of data types collect of ~13.7 vs ~11.9. There's also only a single game(out of 169 with data) that doesn't collect any data in Games(Free). In third party tracking Games(Free) stands out even more with a mean of ~6.1 and median of 6, the closest other chart is News(Free) with a mean of ~2.7 and median of 3. "Scrabble® GO - New Word Game" is the 13th worse app in the data set(in terms of data linked to the user) after Facebook's apps and LinkedIn. There are also several games in the top 20 third party trackers
  - definitelyhuman 6y ago
    Awesome - good to see a full accounting! I know mobile gaming well, and there’s a bit arms race around tracking for targeting efficiency to increase ltv/roas. It’s such a high volume business, there’s a lot of data needed to maximize returns. It will be interesting to see how the IDFA deprecation affects the industry, as their silver bullet is being taken away
blunte 6y ago
The more we learn about Facebook, the worse the story gets. To consider what people get out of Facebook vs what it gets out of them... I actually cannot come up with a suitable analogy. Are Facebook engineers willfully ignorant, or do they not care? At least we hear about a measurable percent of Googlers caring about the bad things G does. I'm not suggesting Facebook engineers are bad, but I do wonder how they feel about what their great efforts ultimately result in.
- nr2x 6y ago
  Considering Facebook are the main reason millions of people won’t take COVID vaccines when they become available, this is the least of their sins, and these are pretty big sins. Same for YouTube.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    It's not Facebook's nor YouTube's fault per-se but the fault of this bullshit business model based on "engagement". You eliminate that and suddenly there's no incentive for any company to host, let alone use algorithms to promote crap content even if it's nefarious to society.
    - nr2x 6y ago
      It’s their business model and their monopoly behavior is designed to crush alternatives.
      - Nextgrid 6y ago
        My point is that you won't solve the problem by merely breaking up/shutting down Facebook or Google - something else will immediately take its place. If you want to solve the problem you have to eradicate the underlying disease with regulation and then Facebook and Google will fix themselves (by adapting or going out of business).
        nr2x 6y ago
        100% agree
      - blunte 6y ago
        And their system is entirely designed to create echo chambers amongst users. Those groups are easier to manipulate with ads, and naturally there are corps and PACs with motives and money ready to pay to manipulate.
- svachalek 6y ago
yalogin 6y ago
My theory is that every casual game is just a cover to collect data. Its actually worse in App stores outside of the US and Europe.
- K0nserv 6y ago
  You might be on to something(see my edit here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25651884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25651884)
- BryantD 6y ago
  Insofar as they're tied into the online advertising markets, yes. You need to collect the data for good ad revenue, and in-app purchases don't typically pay the bills on their own, so there's an incentive to collect data. Since the actual collection tends to be via libraries, it's relatively easy to ignore what your app is actually doing.
- definitelyhuman 6y ago
  It’s all about identifying the ultra whales willing to spend thousands a day. There’s an infamous story of a machine zone employee being stopped on the tarmac by the FBI trying to flee with a thumb drive full of IDFA’s. GOW had people dropping millions, and you could eat their lunch quickly with a fast follow and best customer list. Not sure it was ever publicized, but I’ve heard that story a few times
protoman3000 6y ago
This shows that about half of paid apps from the sample collect data unnecessarily. This is intolerable for every user and every app vendor that does not want to collect data and wants their users to trust them. Wasn’t the AppStore’s walled garden principle supposed to protect against these developments?
K0nserv 6y ago
Author here, I fetched the data set for the US app store and from a cursory look it does look worse than the original data set from the UK store. I'll write a follow up blog post, so if you are interested follow me on Twitter or use my blog's feed to get notified when it drops. Please DM me if there are questions you are curious about exploring with this data set
- mthoms 6y ago
  Suggestion: Keep an eye out for Google iOS updates. It will be interesting to see where they fall in comparison with FB and others. https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/05/google-privacy-details-app-store-apple/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/05/google-privacy-details-app-st...
  - K0nserv 6y ago
    I was chatting to someone on Twitter about just that and I had previously noticed the absence of Google in the data set so it's on my radar already. I'm curious to see what shakes out from their submission.

36 points by wallflower 6y ago

No surprise who the top collector is (Free & FB) but I am surprised the whole Gaming category was omitted. Lots of trackers and tracking in games, especially ad supported [Edit] Author update to capture gaming, leaving the comment up for context

K0nserv 6y ago
Hey, author here. Good point, I did look at it some initially but because it's now separate from the rest of the categories on the App Store I must've glossed over it in the end. I'll make sure to include it in the follow up post that I am planning. EDIT: You we're spot on. I added the Games(Free) data and it dethroned Shopping(Free) as the worst chart with a mean number of data types collect of ~13.7 vs ~11.9. There's also only a single game(out of 169 with data) that doesn't collect any data in Games(Free). In third party tracking Games(Free) stands out even more with a mean of ~6.1 and median of 6, the closest other chart is News(Free) with a mean of ~2.7 and median of 3. "Scrabble® GO - New Word Game" is the 13th worse app in the data set(in terms of data linked to the user) after Facebook's apps and LinkedIn. There are also several games in the top 20 third party trackers
- definitelyhuman 6y ago
  Awesome - good to see a full accounting! I know mobile gaming well, and there’s a bit arms race around tracking for targeting efficiency to increase ltv/roas. It’s such a high volume business, there’s a lot of data needed to maximize returns. It will be interesting to see how the IDFA deprecation affects the industry, as their silver bullet is being taken away

blunte 6y ago

The more we learn about Facebook, the worse the story gets. To consider what people get out of Facebook vs what it gets out of them... I actually cannot come up with a suitable analogy. Are Facebook engineers willfully ignorant, or do they not care? At least we hear about a measurable percent of Googlers caring about the bad things G does. I'm not suggesting Facebook engineers are bad, but I do wonder how they feel about what their great efforts ultimately result in.

nr2x 6y ago
Considering Facebook are the main reason millions of people won’t take COVID vaccines when they become available, this is the least of their sins, and these are pretty big sins. Same for YouTube.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  It's not Facebook's nor YouTube's fault per-se but the fault of this bullshit business model based on "engagement". You eliminate that and suddenly there's no incentive for any company to host, let alone use algorithms to promote crap content even if it's nefarious to society.
  - nr2x 6y ago
    It’s their business model and their monopoly behavior is designed to crush alternatives.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      My point is that you won't solve the problem by merely breaking up/shutting down Facebook or Google - something else will immediately take its place. If you want to solve the problem you have to eradicate the underlying disease with regulation and then Facebook and Google will fix themselves (by adapting or going out of business).
      - nr2x 6y ago
        100% agree
    - blunte 6y ago
      And their system is entirely designed to create echo chambers amongst users. Those groups are easier to manipulate with ads, and naturally there are corps and PACs with motives and money ready to pay to manipulate.
svachalek 6y ago

yalogin 6y ago

My theory is that every casual game is just a cover to collect data. Its actually worse in App stores outside of the US and Europe.

K0nserv 6y ago
You might be on to something(see my edit here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25651884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25651884)
BryantD 6y ago
Insofar as they're tied into the online advertising markets, yes. You need to collect the data for good ad revenue, and in-app purchases don't typically pay the bills on their own, so there's an incentive to collect data. Since the actual collection tends to be via libraries, it's relatively easy to ignore what your app is actually doing.
definitelyhuman 6y ago
It’s all about identifying the ultra whales willing to spend thousands a day. There’s an infamous story of a machine zone employee being stopped on the tarmac by the FBI trying to flee with a thumb drive full of IDFA’s. GOW had people dropping millions, and you could eat their lunch quickly with a fast follow and best customer list. Not sure it was ever publicized, but I’ve heard that story a few times

protoman3000 6y ago

This shows that about half of paid apps from the sample collect data unnecessarily. This is intolerable for every user and every app vendor that does not want to collect data and wants their users to trust them. Wasn’t the AppStore’s walled garden principle supposed to protect against these developments?

K0nserv 6y ago

Author here, I fetched the data set for the US app store and from a cursory look it does look worse than the original data set from the UK store. I'll write a follow up blog post, so if you are interested follow me on Twitter or use my blog's feed to get notified when it drops. Please DM me if there are questions you are curious about exploring with this data set

mthoms 6y ago
Suggestion: Keep an eye out for Google iOS updates. It will be interesting to see where they fall in comparison with FB and others. https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/05/google-privacy-details-app-store-apple/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/05/google-privacy-details-app-st...
- K0nserv 6y ago
  I was chatting to someone on Twitter about just that and I had previously noticed the absence of Google in the data set so it's on my radar already. I'm curious to see what shakes out from their submission.