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If you want to have all of that in the future, as SWE jobs grow in ubiquity and quantity, you should want a union. The reason we have those things now is becaus

If you want to have all of that in the future, as SWE jobs grow in ubiquity and quantity, you should want a union. The reason we have those things now is because we had the leverage in scarcity. In the next decade that scarcity will be gone and you'll be replaceable.

TerminalSystem3 6y ago
What exactly makes you think that demand for SWE jobs will evaporate in the next decade? It looks to me like demand should be higher than ever with all the various car, IoT, security related tech news we've seen recently.
- shakezula 6y ago
  I’m not saying demand evaporates. I’m saying supply balloons.
0xy 6y ago
>that scarcity will be gone and you'll be replaceable That's a wild prediction not based in fact. There's an insurmountable skills shortage in tech and always will be. Appetite for automation, efficiency and software solutions is practically unbounded. Fact is, software salaries are sky high because there's no union. No high performer would ever willingly join a union so his salary can be halved or worse with the difference given to someone who is far less good at their job and is essentially unfireable. Teachers unions ruined education, and a software union would similarly ruin software by protecting the worse engineers and dragging salaries down of high performers. The best teacher in the US is paid identically to the worst teacher. No wonder education is a disaster.
- shakezula 6y ago
  > That's a wild prediction not based in fact Correct, it's a prediction based on the job market numbers, I wouldn't call it "wild" though. > There's an insurmountable skills shortage in tech and always will be. This is incredibly optimistic and in my opinion very naive view of tech. I've already started seeing wages for junior and mid level engineers decreasing because of the flood of new bootcamp graduates. > Appetite for automation, efficiency and software solutions is practically unbounded. Sure, doesn't mean that 10x increase in the labor pool won't effect wages. > software salaries are sky high because there's no union Source needed. > so his salary can be halved You can't say mine is not based in fact and that pull numbers out of your ass, too, ya dingus. > Teachers unions ruined education Source needed. > dragging salaries down of high performers. Do you consider yourself a "high performer"? A 10xer? It's hard to judge ourselves accurately, isn't it? > The best teacher in the US is paid identically to the worst teacher. No wonder education is a disaster. I would think to blame a great many things for this before I'd put the blame at unions, which have been losing power in the states since at least the 90s, probably earlier. Republicans have been gutting education spending the entire time, too. But sure, it was the big bad unions that did it. All I'm saying is that tech wages are good right now, but they won't be this good forever, and we should use our current leverage to at least try to situate ourselves into a more solid standing. If you don't think unions are the way to do that, that's fine, but you can't disagree with the numbers. There's an huge flux of new SWE's entering the workforce right now, in 5-10 years it's going to start being a significant factor in wages all the way up to the top skill levels.
  - 0xy 6y ago
    I'm paid in the 98th percentile for my title and I'm the youngest person with this title in my company, so I think by other people's standards I'm a high performer. >Republicans have been gutting education spending the entire time Absolute cop out, considering states control education largely and Californian schools are a mess. Also, why would you even want a higher budget? Since 2000, there's been a growth of 8% in teacher numbers compared to a whopping 75% increase in middle management. >but you can't disagree with the numbers I sure can't, hence why I'm amused and not surprised that this ideological union garnered less than 0.1% of Google's workforce in membership. By joining a union, you are ceding your negotiating power to often corrupt union officials who optimize for protecting the worst employees. Sorry, but I don't want to work with incompetent people and have the union I pay money to protect them. Teachers unions protect low performers, sexual predator teachers (multiple instances) and worse. What more proof do you need? They protect child sex predators. Regularly.

TerminalSystem3 6y ago

What exactly makes you think that demand for SWE jobs will evaporate in the next decade? It looks to me like demand should be higher than ever with all the various car, IoT, security related tech news we've seen recently.

shakezula 6y ago
I’m not saying demand evaporates. I’m saying supply balloons.

0xy 6y ago

>that scarcity will be gone and you'll be replaceable That's a wild prediction not based in fact. There's an insurmountable skills shortage in tech and always will be. Appetite for automation, efficiency and software solutions is practically unbounded. Fact is, software salaries are sky high because there's no union. No high performer would ever willingly join a union so his salary can be halved or worse with the difference given to someone who is far less good at their job and is essentially unfireable. Teachers unions ruined education, and a software union would similarly ruin software by protecting the worse engineers and dragging salaries down of high performers. The best teacher in the US is paid identically to the worst teacher. No wonder education is a disaster.

shakezula 6y ago
> That's a wild prediction not based in fact Correct, it's a prediction based on the job market numbers, I wouldn't call it "wild" though. > There's an insurmountable skills shortage in tech and always will be. This is incredibly optimistic and in my opinion very naive view of tech. I've already started seeing wages for junior and mid level engineers decreasing because of the flood of new bootcamp graduates. > Appetite for automation, efficiency and software solutions is practically unbounded. Sure, doesn't mean that 10x increase in the labor pool won't effect wages. > software salaries are sky high because there's no union Source needed. > so his salary can be halved You can't say mine is not based in fact and that pull numbers out of your ass, too, ya dingus. > Teachers unions ruined education Source needed. > dragging salaries down of high performers. Do you consider yourself a "high performer"? A 10xer? It's hard to judge ourselves accurately, isn't it? > The best teacher in the US is paid identically to the worst teacher. No wonder education is a disaster. I would think to blame a great many things for this before I'd put the blame at unions, which have been losing power in the states since at least the 90s, probably earlier. Republicans have been gutting education spending the entire time, too. But sure, it was the big bad unions that did it. All I'm saying is that tech wages are good right now, but they won't be this good forever, and we should use our current leverage to at least try to situate ourselves into a more solid standing. If you don't think unions are the way to do that, that's fine, but you can't disagree with the numbers. There's an huge flux of new SWE's entering the workforce right now, in 5-10 years it's going to start being a significant factor in wages all the way up to the top skill levels.
- 0xy 6y ago
  I'm paid in the 98th percentile for my title and I'm the youngest person with this title in my company, so I think by other people's standards I'm a high performer. >Republicans have been gutting education spending the entire time Absolute cop out, considering states control education largely and Californian schools are a mess. Also, why would you even want a higher budget? Since 2000, there's been a growth of 8% in teacher numbers compared to a whopping 75% increase in middle management. >but you can't disagree with the numbers I sure can't, hence why I'm amused and not surprised that this ideological union garnered less than 0.1% of Google's workforce in membership. By joining a union, you are ceding your negotiating power to often corrupt union officials who optimize for protecting the worst employees. Sorry, but I don't want to work with incompetent people and have the union I pay money to protect them. Teachers unions protect low performers, sexual predator teachers (multiple instances) and worse. What more proof do you need? They protect child sex predators. Regularly.