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Whenever I hear this argument, I wonder what the power consumption is for keeping fiat currency going.

muzani 6y ago
Printing it costs energy. Storing it and transporting it costs energy. It seems similar to the argument that trucks create greenhouse gases, neglecting that horses were much worse.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  That's the 'ol false dichotomy. Sure we can have digital currency (in fact, the dollar is mostly digital already). We just don't have to burn 2% of the American energy budget calculating it via insanely expensive ways, when traditional methods can 'do digital' without that.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  It seems quite likely though that we have way more trucks now than there ever were horses. Additionally, biological chemical reactions are typically much more efficient and precise than manmade ones.
  - muzani 6y ago
    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/ https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great... "This problem came to a head when in 1894, The Times newspaper predicted… “In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure.”" There's an xkcd joke that when a lot of people work really hard to solve a problem, people will assume it was never a problem in the first place. It's not just greenhouse gases, but... other forms of pollution as well. Not to mention horse carcasses - at least cars can get stripped down and recycled. I don't think trucks are anywhere near this bad.
    - ironmagma 6y ago
      It's apples and oranges. Comparing the carbon emissions of a truck, as well as the significant airborne particles from the road being torn up by said truck[1] to a biological entity, probably producing more methane than CO or CO2. I recall hearing that weight's effect on a road's wear and tear is polynomial rather than linear, so trucks almost certainly lead to more air pollution than horses ever did. There are also a multitude of incredibly hazardous ingredients in tires, something that horses never had. [2] [1] https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/06/22/murphys-law-how-trucks-destroy-our-roads/ https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/06/22/murphys-law-how-trucks... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/artificial-turf-debate/rubber-mulch-safe-surface-your-childs-playground-n258586 https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/artificial-turf-debate/rub...

Printing it costs energy. Storing it and transporting it costs energy. It seems similar to the argument that trucks create greenhouse gases, neglecting that horses were much worse.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
That's the 'ol false dichotomy. Sure we can have digital currency (in fact, the dollar is mostly digital already). We just don't have to burn 2% of the American energy budget calculating it via insanely expensive ways, when traditional methods can 'do digital' without that.
ironmagma 6y ago
It seems quite likely though that we have way more trucks now than there ever were horses. Additionally, biological chemical reactions are typically much more efficient and precise than manmade ones.
- muzani 6y ago
  https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/ https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great... "This problem came to a head when in 1894, The Times newspaper predicted… “In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure.”" There's an xkcd joke that when a lot of people work really hard to solve a problem, people will assume it was never a problem in the first place. It's not just greenhouse gases, but... other forms of pollution as well. Not to mention horse carcasses - at least cars can get stripped down and recycled. I don't think trucks are anywhere near this bad.
  - ironmagma 6y ago
    It's apples and oranges. Comparing the carbon emissions of a truck, as well as the significant airborne particles from the road being torn up by said truck[1] to a biological entity, probably producing more methane than CO or CO2. I recall hearing that weight's effect on a road's wear and tear is polynomial rather than linear, so trucks almost certainly lead to more air pollution than horses ever did. There are also a multitude of incredibly hazardous ingredients in tires, something that horses never had. [2] [1] https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/06/22/murphys-law-how-trucks-destroy-our-roads/ https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/06/22/murphys-law-how-trucks... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/artificial-turf-debate/rubber-mulch-safe-surface-your-childs-playground-n258586 https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/artificial-turf-debate/rub...