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This is the risk with at-will employment in CA. The employer could very well decide after two days of you working there that they wanted to let you go -- there

This is the risk with at-will employment in CA. The employer could very well decide after two days of you working there that they wanted to let you go -- there's no part of the contract keeping either side from ending things early. I don't think it's unethical to leave after a short amount of time given the employer has no equivalent expectation.

nickff 6y ago
Would you have a different expectation if the employment agreement specified severance compensation for the employee, or if the law required severance?
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  If the law required severance the law is also pretty likely to make requirements of the employee as well so things will still be equal - when I say pretty likely I mean in every case I have ever seen.
- janosett 6y ago
  Yes, I would openly encourage different types of work contracts in California / the US. I'd commit, for example, to 1-2 year auto-renewing contracts. Probably would need a few conditions: * If I am terminated without breach of contract I still will receive full compensation (at least for some months). * Contract may not be broken related to any unexpected health issues. * No arbitration requirement if one side accuses breach of contract. Of course this would benefit me more than the employer :-)
mathattack 6y ago
It’s not unethical though it may take some explaining later on.
stanrivers 6y ago
I agree with this. However, I will say unless there is something major wrong with you or major at the company, you are now going to be fired very quickly. The company also doesn’t want that reputation. I work in finance and certain hedge funds have a reputation for cutting people quickly they don’t like. It attracts people that are ok with that and most stay away. That all said - you got to look out for you and your family and friends, so you got to do it sometimes. Just wanted to say that, most of the times, the feeling of a commitment to each other goes both ways during the honeymoon period between company and person.
- blisse 6y ago
  now or not going to be fired quickly?
sethammons 6y ago
A buddy of mine got a new job, quit the old one, showed up day one and was laid off immediately. Apparently their budget had changed. Oof! We also hired a c-level exec who came aboard apparently having already accepted a different offer and came on for under a month to collect pay and get some juicy stock. Apparently they negotiated well and walked off very, very well paid. Edit: not sure if I have a point there other than both employees and companies can be jerks. We should all be better.
- macintux 6y ago
  > We also hired a c-level exec who came aboard apparently having already accepted a different offer and came on for under a month to collect pay and get some juicy stock. At a previous job, I worked fairly closely with a sales representative who, it turned out, was working in sales “full time” for two different tech companies in different fields. Needless to say, once he was discovered he was jobless (unless, of course, there were more undiscovered jobs out there).
  - icedchai 6y ago
    How was he discovered? It would be easier to do this nowadays, given the whole remote thing.
    - macintux 6y ago
      The other employer found out, IIRC, through his LinkedIn profile and contacted us. Been several years though so I’m only moderately confident in that memory.
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        I am conflicted abiut this - he was working full time at 2 places and performing adequately? Was he that good? If this continued for a while and you were happy with his work prior to discovering this, why let him go?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
spectramax 6y ago
Nailed it. At-will employment in CA, so the employee can be fired or laid off instantly in an afternoon - happens all the time. But, they're generally expected (not required) to give 2-3 weeks notice. I always found this a bit asymmetric.
- mistersquid 6y ago
  > But, they're generally expected (not required) to give 2-3 weeks notice. California at-will employment cuts both ways and requires neither employer nor employee to give notice. Many employers will typically notify employees 30 days in advance of layoffs and provide severance on top of that. Many employees give employers two weeks’ notice before quitting. Some employers and some employees do neither, which is fully within the bounds of at-will employment in California.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Many companies in CA, while you absolutely do not have to give notice, legally, will refuse to provide a reference or employment verification or flag you as "not eligible for rehire", (most companies I've worked with lately don't ask for references, per se, but _do_ verify dates of employment and eligibility for rehire) including to prospective employers, if you do not.
kevinpet 6y ago
You're equating legal obligations with expectations. Firing someone after two days because you realize you found someone better might be legal, but a company would be rightly criticized for doing that.
eeZah7Ux 6y ago
This is absurd. Even with a beefy severance package, employees can face very serious risks after being laid off, while companies face minimal risks.

nickff 6y ago

Would you have a different expectation if the employment agreement specified severance compensation for the employee, or if the law required severance?

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
If the law required severance the law is also pretty likely to make requirements of the employee as well so things will still be equal - when I say pretty likely I mean in every case I have ever seen.
janosett 6y ago
Yes, I would openly encourage different types of work contracts in California / the US. I'd commit, for example, to 1-2 year auto-renewing contracts. Probably would need a few conditions: * If I am terminated without breach of contract I still will receive full compensation (at least for some months). * Contract may not be broken related to any unexpected health issues. * No arbitration requirement if one side accuses breach of contract. Of course this would benefit me more than the employer :-)

mathattack 6y ago

It’s not unethical though it may take some explaining later on.

stanrivers 6y ago

I agree with this. However, I will say unless there is something major wrong with you or major at the company, you are now going to be fired very quickly. The company also doesn’t want that reputation. I work in finance and certain hedge funds have a reputation for cutting people quickly they don’t like. It attracts people that are ok with that and most stay away. That all said - you got to look out for you and your family and friends, so you got to do it sometimes. Just wanted to say that, most of the times, the feeling of a commitment to each other goes both ways during the honeymoon period between company and person.

blisse 6y ago
now or not going to be fired quickly?

sethammons 6y ago

A buddy of mine got a new job, quit the old one, showed up day one and was laid off immediately. Apparently their budget had changed. Oof! We also hired a c-level exec who came aboard apparently having already accepted a different offer and came on for under a month to collect pay and get some juicy stock. Apparently they negotiated well and walked off very, very well paid. Edit: not sure if I have a point there other than both employees and companies can be jerks. We should all be better.

macintux 6y ago
> We also hired a c-level exec who came aboard apparently having already accepted a different offer and came on for under a month to collect pay and get some juicy stock. At a previous job, I worked fairly closely with a sales representative who, it turned out, was working in sales “full time” for two different tech companies in different fields. Needless to say, once he was discovered he was jobless (unless, of course, there were more undiscovered jobs out there).
- icedchai 6y ago
  How was he discovered? It would be easier to do this nowadays, given the whole remote thing.
  - macintux 6y ago
    The other employer found out, IIRC, through his LinkedIn profile and contacted us. Been several years though so I’m only moderately confident in that memory.
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      I am conflicted abiut this - he was working full time at 2 places and performing adequately? Was he that good? If this continued for a while and you were happy with his work prior to discovering this, why let him go?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

spectramax 6y ago

Nailed it. At-will employment in CA, so the employee can be fired or laid off instantly in an afternoon - happens all the time. But, they're generally expected (not required) to give 2-3 weeks notice. I always found this a bit asymmetric.

mistersquid 6y ago
> But, they're generally expected (not required) to give 2-3 weeks notice. California at-will employment cuts both ways and requires neither employer nor employee to give notice. Many employers will typically notify employees 30 days in advance of layoffs and provide severance on top of that. Many employees give employers two weeks’ notice before quitting. Some employers and some employees do neither, which is fully within the bounds of at-will employment in California.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Many companies in CA, while you absolutely do not have to give notice, legally, will refuse to provide a reference or employment verification or flag you as "not eligible for rehire", (most companies I've worked with lately don't ask for references, per se, but _do_ verify dates of employment and eligibility for rehire) including to prospective employers, if you do not.

kevinpet 6y ago

You're equating legal obligations with expectations. Firing someone after two days because you realize you found someone better might be legal, but a company would be rightly criticized for doing that.

eeZah7Ux 6y ago

This is absurd. Even with a beefy severance package, employees can face very serious risks after being laid off, while companies face minimal risks.