5 ms·

Things like the "where do I get masks" map don't seem antithetical to personal privacy the way a contact tracing tool is. That's pretty low-hanging fruit that w

Things like the "where do I get masks" map don't seem antithetical to personal privacy the way a contact tracing tool is. That's pretty low-hanging fruit that we didn't appear to make any attempt to pick.

ISL 6y ago
Volunteer groups like findthemasks did, but in a get-PPE-to-hospitals context. I am unaware of a US implementation of a direct copy of the Taiwanese webapp. In the US through at least May, health authorities were scrambling to get enough PPE to keep the healthcare system functional.
adrianmonk 6y ago
Not to mention the scrapped plan to just simply mail masks to every US household: https://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/white-house-axed-usps-plan-to-send-5-masks-to-every-american-household/ https://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/white-house-axed-usps-p...
awnird 6y ago
I don't think a Masks Map would work in a country where the population believes COVID is fake, and masks are an Islamic plot. Don't you have to address those fundamental issues first?
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Trump and QAnon followers in the US don't just believe COVID is fake, they commonly throw tantrums, threaten, and actively attack, and even murder people wearing masks and asking them to wear masks. QAnon Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene Refuses to Wear Mask at Congressional Swearing-In https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-congresswoman-marjorie-taylor-greene-175851346.html https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-congresswoman-marjorie-taylor-g... St. Louis County man threatens to 'shoot up' church over mask request https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/st-louis-county-man-threatens-to-shoot-up-church-over-mask-request https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/st-louis-county-man-threaten... Family Charged In Security Guard's Death After Mask Dispute https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/05/850618310/family-charged-in-murder-of-security-guard-after-mask-dispute https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0... US family 'murdered shop guard for enforcing mask policy' https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52540266 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52540266 NYPD: Woman Attacked By Couple After Asking Them To Wear Face Masks In Elevator https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/brooklyn-face-mask-attack/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/brooklyn-face-mask-a... ATTACKED FOR WEARING MY MASK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kII1ST3Z2Xk&ab_channel=JonFoor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kII1ST3Z2Xk&ab_channel=JonFo... Men attack Target employee after refusing to wear face mask https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI5Xbw4ec-0&ab_channel=WPLGLocal10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI5Xbw4ec-0&ab_channel=WPLGL... Woman attacked in N.J. Staples after asking customer to wear mask https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kJWYt_foY&ab_channel=NJ.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kJWYt_foY&ab_channel=NJ.co... There are many other examples.
maxerickson 6y ago
Contact tracing isn't antithetical to personal privacy. I suppose you can say it compromises absolute personal privacy, but so does someone seeing you in a store, so it's not very interesting. Singapore has certainly decided to show how bad it can be, but the root of that is an authoritarian mandate, not the contact tracing itself.
- zbrozek 6y ago
  Good luck convincing many people in the US of the same. I'm certainly not convinced. As you point out, Singapore has already abused the system. If some abuse is technically possible, it's probably already happening. But there's a lot of room outside of "do nothing" and "omnipresent perfect surveillance" to do good things with civic technology, including non-pandemic stuff. Why aren't all public records online and searchable through a single engine? Or all forms editable and submittable? Or budgets and financial reports navigable or comparable? I'd love to be able to know how some random municipality is going to gouge me before I move there. There's loads of room for good solutions for these and tons of other pain points. But as far as I can tell, American government is scared of letting go so the private sector can develop these things. And it's not imaginative or technically competent enough to want or develop this kind of stuff on its own. Or maybe it's not organized or unified enough?
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Singapore isn't making some dubious technical violation of their system, they are putting in place a top down mandate requiring it. My point is that it is a consequence of their politics more than of the contact tracing being technically possible.

ISL 6y ago

Volunteer groups like findthemasks did, but in a get-PPE-to-hospitals context. I am unaware of a US implementation of a direct copy of the Taiwanese webapp. In the US through at least May, health authorities were scrambling to get enough PPE to keep the healthcare system functional.

adrianmonk 6y ago

Not to mention the scrapped plan to just simply mail masks to every US household: https://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/white-house-axed-usps-plan-to-send-5-masks-to-every-american-household/ https://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/white-house-axed-usps-p...

awnird 6y ago

I don't think a Masks Map would work in a country where the population believes COVID is fake, and masks are an Islamic plot. Don't you have to address those fundamental issues first?

DonHopkins 6y ago
Trump and QAnon followers in the US don't just believe COVID is fake, they commonly throw tantrums, threaten, and actively attack, and even murder people wearing masks and asking them to wear masks. QAnon Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene Refuses to Wear Mask at Congressional Swearing-In https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-congresswoman-marjorie-taylor-greene-175851346.html https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-congresswoman-marjorie-taylor-g... St. Louis County man threatens to 'shoot up' church over mask request https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/st-louis-county-man-threatens-to-shoot-up-church-over-mask-request https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/st-louis-county-man-threaten... Family Charged In Security Guard's Death After Mask Dispute https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/05/850618310/family-charged-in-murder-of-security-guard-after-mask-dispute https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0... US family 'murdered shop guard for enforcing mask policy' https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52540266 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52540266 NYPD: Woman Attacked By Couple After Asking Them To Wear Face Masks In Elevator https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/brooklyn-face-mask-attack/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/brooklyn-face-mask-a... ATTACKED FOR WEARING MY MASK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kII1ST3Z2Xk&ab_channel=JonFoor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kII1ST3Z2Xk&ab_channel=JonFo... Men attack Target employee after refusing to wear face mask https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI5Xbw4ec-0&ab_channel=WPLGLocal10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI5Xbw4ec-0&ab_channel=WPLGL... Woman attacked in N.J. Staples after asking customer to wear mask https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kJWYt_foY&ab_channel=NJ.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kJWYt_foY&ab_channel=NJ.co... There are many other examples.

maxerickson 6y ago

Contact tracing isn't antithetical to personal privacy. I suppose you can say it compromises absolute personal privacy, but so does someone seeing you in a store, so it's not very interesting. Singapore has certainly decided to show how bad it can be, but the root of that is an authoritarian mandate, not the contact tracing itself.

zbrozek 6y ago
Good luck convincing many people in the US of the same. I'm certainly not convinced. As you point out, Singapore has already abused the system. If some abuse is technically possible, it's probably already happening. But there's a lot of room outside of "do nothing" and "omnipresent perfect surveillance" to do good things with civic technology, including non-pandemic stuff. Why aren't all public records online and searchable through a single engine? Or all forms editable and submittable? Or budgets and financial reports navigable or comparable? I'd love to be able to know how some random municipality is going to gouge me before I move there. There's loads of room for good solutions for these and tons of other pain points. But as far as I can tell, American government is scared of letting go so the private sector can develop these things. And it's not imaginative or technically competent enough to want or develop this kind of stuff on its own. Or maybe it's not organized or unified enough?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Singapore isn't making some dubious technical violation of their system, they are putting in place a top down mandate requiring it. My point is that it is a consequence of their politics more than of the contact tracing being technically possible.