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For everything that's wrong in the United States, it's just terrifying to think of what it's like to be in China/Russia/Saudi Arabia/etc., where the government

For everything that's wrong in the United States, it's just terrifying to think of what it's like to be in China/Russia/Saudi Arabia/etc., where the government has no qualms about poisoning, arresting or otherwise silencing you if your disagree. I have endless respect for people who stand up to those governments, because quite honestly I'm far too much of a coward to ever do so in their position.

brink 6y ago
It's why it's so terrifying to watch people call on social media companies to censor controversy. Freedom of speech is what separates us from them.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  I find the two sets of problems incomparable, personally. It's dramatic to equate them.
eloff 6y ago
It makes one really appreciate the concept of having rights here in the West. Granted sometimes the police or the government overstep and don't respect those rights, but it's a far cry from the norm in much of the world where you only have rights to the extent permitted by the capricious whims of the people in power and it can change instantly with no recourse or appeal.
- awillen 6y ago
  Agreed - and FWIW even with what Trump has tried to do to give himself dictatorial powers (and the enablement of the Republicans to that end), our democracy has still held up pretty well.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  It's not just rights. There are many countries that purportedly offer the same rights as the US. Another key differentiator is the rule of law. Granted, both are slowly eroding.
MattGaiser 6y ago
For all the faults of American governance, it is extremely resistant to authoritarianism. There is currently an American president openly trying to have the election rigged and he has a pile of people behind him. And despite having a majority in one legislative house, despite appointing tons of the judges, and despite having the ability to ruin the careers of numerous state legislators and executives, he is almost certainly going to fail. There have been plenty of attempts to imprison people on a whim in the USA and while they have succeeded for a period, they tend not to survive long term either.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  I have this same thought a lot - even though Trump highlighted the fact a lot of our governance practices are simply norms rather than being enforceable, he also demonstrated that our system is actually pretty resilient to raw evil. Despite his constantly talking about wanting to do dictator-like things, and frequently trying to, he was never really able to in practice (though there are a couple arguable counter examples - one particular usage of police violence springs to mind).
- hangonhn 6y ago
  Alexis De Tocqueville in his book "Democracy in America" identified one of the foundations of American democracy is our social mores. A lot of the reasons why the judiciaries appointed by him didn't go along with his blatant attempts to undermine the election has to do with their values and believes. I'm not trying to say Americans are somehow better people than others but want to point out the important role unwritten rules and social norms have in our governance. Quite a few countries have tried to establish their government along the same lines as the US, UK, etc. but failed even though their structure is similar to ours and I think a lot of it has to do with what sorts of values people have and hold onto. In fact, the UK has even more unwritten rules than the US -- they lack a constitution but still functions well as a democracy. Pre-WWII Japan copied their government from the UK and it ended up more or less a military state.
xxpor 6y ago
Let's not pat ourselves on the back too much. https://www.opb.org/article/2020/10/13/new-eyewitness-accounts-feds-didnt-identify-themselves-before-firing-on-portland-antifa-shooting-suspect/ https://www.opb.org/article/2020/10/13/new-eyewitness-accoun...
- awillen 6y ago
  Yeah, agreed, definitely not back patting... it's just a soooooo much lesser of two evils situation.
loopz 6y ago
You might not deserve freedom then!
- jaycroft 6y ago
  For everything that's wrong in the United States at least the creators of the nation believed, enough to memorialize in it's founding documents, that it is self evident that that certain freedoms should be absolute weather or not earned or deserved...
  - loopz 6y ago
    Universal rights are only true as long as people don't take their freedoms for granted. The rights we enjoy today were paid for with tears and blood.
    - jaycroft 6y ago
      I guess what I'm getting at that you might have missed is that "rights", especially "unalienable rights" are things that by their very definition do not have to be earned in order to be deserved. Otherwise, what would they be?
      - loopz 6y ago
        They are useful human constructs, but only in places where they are respected and defended.

brink 6y ago

It's why it's so terrifying to watch people call on social media companies to censor controversy. Freedom of speech is what separates us from them.

happytoexplain 6y ago
I find the two sets of problems incomparable, personally. It's dramatic to equate them.

eloff 6y ago

It makes one really appreciate the concept of having rights here in the West. Granted sometimes the police or the government overstep and don't respect those rights, but it's a far cry from the norm in much of the world where you only have rights to the extent permitted by the capricious whims of the people in power and it can change instantly with no recourse or appeal.

awillen 6y ago
Agreed - and FWIW even with what Trump has tried to do to give himself dictatorial powers (and the enablement of the Republicans to that end), our democracy has still held up pretty well.
chaostheory 6y ago
It's not just rights. There are many countries that purportedly offer the same rights as the US. Another key differentiator is the rule of law. Granted, both are slowly eroding.

MattGaiser 6y ago

For all the faults of American governance, it is extremely resistant to authoritarianism. There is currently an American president openly trying to have the election rigged and he has a pile of people behind him. And despite having a majority in one legislative house, despite appointing tons of the judges, and despite having the ability to ruin the careers of numerous state legislators and executives, he is almost certainly going to fail. There have been plenty of attempts to imprison people on a whim in the USA and while they have succeeded for a period, they tend not to survive long term either.

happytoexplain 6y ago
I have this same thought a lot - even though Trump highlighted the fact a lot of our governance practices are simply norms rather than being enforceable, he also demonstrated that our system is actually pretty resilient to raw evil. Despite his constantly talking about wanting to do dictator-like things, and frequently trying to, he was never really able to in practice (though there are a couple arguable counter examples - one particular usage of police violence springs to mind).
hangonhn 6y ago
Alexis De Tocqueville in his book "Democracy in America" identified one of the foundations of American democracy is our social mores. A lot of the reasons why the judiciaries appointed by him didn't go along with his blatant attempts to undermine the election has to do with their values and believes. I'm not trying to say Americans are somehow better people than others but want to point out the important role unwritten rules and social norms have in our governance. Quite a few countries have tried to establish their government along the same lines as the US, UK, etc. but failed even though their structure is similar to ours and I think a lot of it has to do with what sorts of values people have and hold onto. In fact, the UK has even more unwritten rules than the US -- they lack a constitution but still functions well as a democracy. Pre-WWII Japan copied their government from the UK and it ended up more or less a military state.

xxpor 6y ago

Let's not pat ourselves on the back too much. https://www.opb.org/article/2020/10/13/new-eyewitness-accounts-feds-didnt-identify-themselves-before-firing-on-portland-antifa-shooting-suspect/ https://www.opb.org/article/2020/10/13/new-eyewitness-accoun...

awillen 6y ago
Yeah, agreed, definitely not back patting... it's just a soooooo much lesser of two evils situation.

loopz 6y ago

You might not deserve freedom then!

jaycroft 6y ago
For everything that's wrong in the United States at least the creators of the nation believed, enough to memorialize in it's founding documents, that it is self evident that that certain freedoms should be absolute weather or not earned or deserved...
- loopz 6y ago
  Universal rights are only true as long as people don't take their freedoms for granted. The rights we enjoy today were paid for with tears and blood.
  - jaycroft 6y ago
    I guess what I'm getting at that you might have missed is that "rights", especially "unalienable rights" are things that by their very definition do not have to be earned in order to be deserved. Otherwise, what would they be?
    - loopz 6y ago
      They are useful human constructs, but only in places where they are respected and defended.