4 ms·

Here is the daily chart [1]. Can you point me at a 20% drop? [1] https://ibb.co/YpYqxH9 https://ibb.co/YpYqxH9

arcticbull 6y ago
Come on, you can do better than that. Volatility isn't measured exclusively on a, what is that, weekly chart? Did you really need me to zoom in for you? https://imgur.com/a/tPV0CVa https://imgur.com/a/tPV0CVa
- crypt1d 6y ago
  its certainly not measured on 15minute candles either ;)
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    It most certainly is. The upward movement on the daily chart is also volatility. Volatility isn't exclusively toward gravity.
- hinkley 6y ago
  To be fair, that's a 10% drop for the day, but for me at least the argument still holds. 10% in one day is a pretty big swing, doubly so if that's a regular occurrence.
  - andreygrehov 6y ago
    I'm not familiar with stock market, but looking at a daily AMZN stock price [1], I honestly can't see a huge difference with Bitcoin. Could it be that BTC is slightly more volatile because of the nature of the market? a) it's open 24/7 b) it's much more accessible. [1] https://ibb.co/N9y7yxB https://ibb.co/N9y7yxB
    - hinkley 6y ago
      Nobody would keep all of their liquid assets in AMZN stock either. Put it another way, where'd you get that $400M from? Did you earn it, or get it from venture capitalists? If the asset is such a sure bet, why did the VC give you the money to sit on instead of investing it directly themselves? And why is it that companies that pay dividends tend to do better in the stock market and be more stable? Essentially a dividend is admitting you have more money than you know what to do with, so you give it back to the shareholders rather than getting distracted from your core competency.
    - squeaky-clean 6y ago
      I can't buy my groceries with AMZN shares, and they're not intended to be able to do that. No one is pretending AMZN shares are going to be a peer to peer currency. I can't buy my groceries with BTC either, but that's because no store will trust a payment method where within an hour the value of what I've paid them declines 10%.
      - andreygrehov 6y ago
        Nobody is arguing about that. The idea that BTC is a currency is long gone. Bitcoin is a store of value, similar to gold (which you also can't use to buy your groceries).
        arcticbull 6y ago
        You absolutely could use gold to back your personal economy. Put dollars into an InteractiveBrokers account, buy GLD. Use your IBKR debit card to borrow against your GLD on margin. Pay it off at the end of the month. You can back your personal economy with literally anything you want that way. That's the magic of fiat currency.
ineedasername 6y ago
The 1-day price chart via Google shows a drop from ~33,700 @ 4:00 am UTC to ~28,900 @ 10:30 am UTC So, about 14%. It is also disingenuous to compare its volatility to stocks when it is supposed to be a currency. I want a heck of a lot less volatility in what I use to pay my bills and buy things than I'm willing to accept in my investment portfolio. Unless bitcoin and other coins demonstrate such stability, they aren't going to become a major form of payment.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > I want a heck of a lot less volatility in what I use to pay my bills and buy things than I'm willing to accept in my investment portfolio. Which is good because BTC is used nowhere as a form of payment.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    And I don't see how it will become one without stability, which leaves it the nominal role of "currency" but a defacto role of "security" or "commodity" that doesn't happen to be backed by assets as such things tend to be. I suppose if it remains consistently deflationary over medium-long term periods, that could still be useful, but doesn't really fulfill the role most crypto advocates envision.

Come on, you can do better than that. Volatility isn't measured exclusively on a, what is that, weekly chart? Did you really need me to zoom in for you? https://imgur.com/a/tPV0CVa https://imgur.com/a/tPV0CVa

crypt1d 6y ago
its certainly not measured on 15minute candles either ;)
- arcticbull 6y ago
  It most certainly is. The upward movement on the daily chart is also volatility. Volatility isn't exclusively toward gravity.
hinkley 6y ago
To be fair, that's a 10% drop for the day, but for me at least the argument still holds. 10% in one day is a pretty big swing, doubly so if that's a regular occurrence.
- andreygrehov 6y ago
  I'm not familiar with stock market, but looking at a daily AMZN stock price [1], I honestly can't see a huge difference with Bitcoin. Could it be that BTC is slightly more volatile because of the nature of the market? a) it's open 24/7 b) it's much more accessible. [1] https://ibb.co/N9y7yxB https://ibb.co/N9y7yxB
  - hinkley 6y ago
    Nobody would keep all of their liquid assets in AMZN stock either. Put it another way, where'd you get that $400M from? Did you earn it, or get it from venture capitalists? If the asset is such a sure bet, why did the VC give you the money to sit on instead of investing it directly themselves? And why is it that companies that pay dividends tend to do better in the stock market and be more stable? Essentially a dividend is admitting you have more money than you know what to do with, so you give it back to the shareholders rather than getting distracted from your core competency.
  - squeaky-clean 6y ago
    I can't buy my groceries with AMZN shares, and they're not intended to be able to do that. No one is pretending AMZN shares are going to be a peer to peer currency. I can't buy my groceries with BTC either, but that's because no store will trust a payment method where within an hour the value of what I've paid them declines 10%.
    - andreygrehov 6y ago
      Nobody is arguing about that. The idea that BTC is a currency is long gone. Bitcoin is a store of value, similar to gold (which you also can't use to buy your groceries).
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        You absolutely could use gold to back your personal economy. Put dollars into an InteractiveBrokers account, buy GLD. Use your IBKR debit card to borrow against your GLD on margin. Pay it off at the end of the month. You can back your personal economy with literally anything you want that way. That's the magic of fiat currency.

ineedasername 6y ago

The 1-day price chart via Google shows a drop from ~33,700 @ 4:00 am UTC to ~28,900 @ 10:30 am UTC So, about 14%. It is also disingenuous to compare its volatility to stocks when it is supposed to be a currency. I want a heck of a lot less volatility in what I use to pay my bills and buy things than I'm willing to accept in my investment portfolio. Unless bitcoin and other coins demonstrate such stability, they aren't going to become a major form of payment.

ekianjo 6y ago
> I want a heck of a lot less volatility in what I use to pay my bills and buy things than I'm willing to accept in my investment portfolio. Which is good because BTC is used nowhere as a form of payment.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  And I don't see how it will become one without stability, which leaves it the nominal role of "currency" but a defacto role of "security" or "commodity" that doesn't happen to be backed by assets as such things tend to be. I suppose if it remains consistently deflationary over medium-long term periods, that could still be useful, but doesn't really fulfill the role most crypto advocates envision.