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Exactly. Bitcoin has been heavily criticized on HN by some, but we're seeing its value proposition come to fruition: an asset that is resistant to artificial go

by apta_ 6y ago

Exactly. Bitcoin has been heavily criticized on HN by some, but we're seeing its value proposition come to fruition: an asset that is resistant to artificial government fueled inflation. Perhaps also easier to get into than stocks (no need for a brokerage account, and you can buy in almost arbitrary amounts), and definitely easier than getting into property.

tehlike 6y ago
It is definitely not easier than stocks. Brokerages made it really easy to enroll and start buying it
- intev 6y ago
  It is so much easier than stocks. In the US it is relatively easy but in most countries you can't just download an app and start trading. Anyone can buy a bitcoin with a credit card.
  - tehlike 6y ago
    I can and did download an app and started trading. I think these days robinhood is similar.
- hanniabu 6y ago
  So has Coinbase and Gemini. It certainly sounds like you're not even familiar with the process.
  - tehlike 6y ago
    No I definitely am. But there are (or used to be, last I bought) funky limits and so on, and huge amount of fees coinbase is taking on top.
    - thinkmassive 6y ago
      There are many better options than Coinbase. Some user friendly options include Swan, River, Casa, and Cash App. https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1333864682122137601 https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1333864682122137601
- tachyonbeam 6y ago
  Yeah... I bought about $250 worth of bitcoins two years ago on an exchange. The exchange went bankrupt and the bitcoins are gone. At least with a stock broker your account is insured by the government up to a certain amount. Yes, I know, run your own wallet, don't leave your bitcoins on the exchange... Except again, with stocks, you don't have to worry about that. I was personally hoping that a bitcoin exchange would have better security and backups than my home PC. As far as I'm concerned, storing bitcoins on your machine, with no insurance, is not much safer than storing gold bullion in your closet. I'm just happy what I was wise enough not to put more money in bitcoin than I could afford to lose.
  - companyhen 6y ago
    Not your keys, not your coins.
  - ball_of_lint 6y ago
    It would be wonderful to have a BTC bank account with an insurance policy denominated in BTC, but that doesn't exist yet (AFAIK). Until then... Not your keys not your coins. Also, you don't need to store them on your PC. There are also paper wallets, hardware wallets, or you could put your wallet files on a flash drive. > I'm just happy what I was wise enough not to put more money in bitcoin than I could afford to lose. That should be the default for ~any investment.
  - vmception 6y ago
    People are learning, glad you did too. I wish I could withdraw my stocks easily, and it takes a very long time to transfer stocks between accounts or even exchanges. Thats a bug, to me.
- Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
  I can buy bitcoin with cash. Where can I exchange cash for stocks?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tehlike 6y ago
    please tell me how many times you did exactly that and what amounts.
  - ivanche 6y ago
    At literally every broker in the world?
  - danlugo92 6y ago
    Where can you buy bitcoin with cash in 2021? Asking for a friend.
OminousWeapons 6y ago
Couldn't someone achieve the same goals with fractional share investing which also comes with many more legal protections than crypto?
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  1 Bitcoin is worth 1 Bitcoin so a government printing more money can't hurt your Bitcoin, only make it more pricy. This assumes that you can pay for something in Bitcoin directly (which was a common thing a few years back)
  - OminousWeapons 6y ago
    If I'm understanding correctly, what you are saying is that Bitcoin is fundamentally different than say a share of Amazon because inflationary activity could actually damage Amazon as a company and therefore lower the price of Amazon shares long term whereas Bitcoin cannot be damaged in such a way because it's value is not based on any real economic activity?
    - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
      > whereas Bitcoin cannot be damaged in such a way because it is not based on any real economic activity No, Bitcoin has economic activity from transactions on the Blockchain (peer-peer) and mining activity (system-miner). This activity cannot often by disrupted by another currency minting a lot of other currency.
      - OminousWeapons 6y ago
        Got it, thanks.
azernik 6y ago
Which assets exactly are seeing artificial government fueled inflation?
- apta_ 6y ago
  The dollar printer went crazy in 2020: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2. This definitely had an effect on stock and property prices, and seemingly some cryptocurrencies as well.
  - azernik 6y ago
    Is your argument in favor of bitcoin as an asset class is that its value doesn't skyrocket when stock and property values skyrocket? (My assumption when you said "inflation" was a drop in purchasing power of a given asset, not a rise.)
    - apta_ 6y ago
      > (My assumption when you said "inflation" was a drop in purchasing power of a given asset, not a rise.) I was referring to the inflation of the US dollar. That's why property, stock, bitcoin, etc. went up.
      - azernik 6y ago
        That would be a nice theory, but inflation in terms of producer and consumer goods is lower than in previous years (PPI inflation of 0.8% for the 12 months ending on 31 November, CPI inflation of 1.2% for the same period, compared to an average of more like 2% over the previous few years).
- mcguire 6y ago
  Bitcoin.
  - azernik 6y ago
    Heh

by apta_ 6y ago

tehlike 6y ago

It is definitely not easier than stocks. Brokerages made it really easy to enroll and start buying it

intev 6y ago
It is so much easier than stocks. In the US it is relatively easy but in most countries you can't just download an app and start trading. Anyone can buy a bitcoin with a credit card.
- tehlike 6y ago
  I can and did download an app and started trading. I think these days robinhood is similar.
hanniabu 6y ago
So has Coinbase and Gemini. It certainly sounds like you're not even familiar with the process.
- tehlike 6y ago
  No I definitely am. But there are (or used to be, last I bought) funky limits and so on, and huge amount of fees coinbase is taking on top.
  - thinkmassive 6y ago
    There are many better options than Coinbase. Some user friendly options include Swan, River, Casa, and Cash App. https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1333864682122137601 https://twitter.com/blockbain/status/1333864682122137601
tachyonbeam 6y ago
Yeah... I bought about $250 worth of bitcoins two years ago on an exchange. The exchange went bankrupt and the bitcoins are gone. At least with a stock broker your account is insured by the government up to a certain amount. Yes, I know, run your own wallet, don't leave your bitcoins on the exchange... Except again, with stocks, you don't have to worry about that. I was personally hoping that a bitcoin exchange would have better security and backups than my home PC. As far as I'm concerned, storing bitcoins on your machine, with no insurance, is not much safer than storing gold bullion in your closet. I'm just happy what I was wise enough not to put more money in bitcoin than I could afford to lose.
- companyhen 6y ago
  Not your keys, not your coins.
- ball_of_lint 6y ago
  It would be wonderful to have a BTC bank account with an insurance policy denominated in BTC, but that doesn't exist yet (AFAIK). Until then... Not your keys not your coins. Also, you don't need to store them on your PC. There are also paper wallets, hardware wallets, or you could put your wallet files on a flash drive. > I'm just happy what I was wise enough not to put more money in bitcoin than I could afford to lose. That should be the default for ~any investment.
- vmception 6y ago
  People are learning, glad you did too. I wish I could withdraw my stocks easily, and it takes a very long time to transfer stocks between accounts or even exchanges. Thats a bug, to me.
Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
I can buy bitcoin with cash. Where can I exchange cash for stocks?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tehlike 6y ago
  please tell me how many times you did exactly that and what amounts.
- ivanche 6y ago
  At literally every broker in the world?
- danlugo92 6y ago
  Where can you buy bitcoin with cash in 2021? Asking for a friend.

OminousWeapons 6y ago

Couldn't someone achieve the same goals with fractional share investing which also comes with many more legal protections than crypto?

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
1 Bitcoin is worth 1 Bitcoin so a government printing more money can't hurt your Bitcoin, only make it more pricy. This assumes that you can pay for something in Bitcoin directly (which was a common thing a few years back)
- OminousWeapons 6y ago
  If I'm understanding correctly, what you are saying is that Bitcoin is fundamentally different than say a share of Amazon because inflationary activity could actually damage Amazon as a company and therefore lower the price of Amazon shares long term whereas Bitcoin cannot be damaged in such a way because it's value is not based on any real economic activity?
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    > whereas Bitcoin cannot be damaged in such a way because it is not based on any real economic activity No, Bitcoin has economic activity from transactions on the Blockchain (peer-peer) and mining activity (system-miner). This activity cannot often by disrupted by another currency minting a lot of other currency.
    - OminousWeapons 6y ago
      Got it, thanks.

azernik 6y ago

Which assets exactly are seeing artificial government fueled inflation?

apta_ 6y ago
The dollar printer went crazy in 2020: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2. This definitely had an effect on stock and property prices, and seemingly some cryptocurrencies as well.
- azernik 6y ago
  Is your argument in favor of bitcoin as an asset class is that its value doesn't skyrocket when stock and property values skyrocket? (My assumption when you said "inflation" was a drop in purchasing power of a given asset, not a rise.)
  - apta_ 6y ago
    > (My assumption when you said "inflation" was a drop in purchasing power of a given asset, not a rise.) I was referring to the inflation of the US dollar. That's why property, stock, bitcoin, etc. went up.
    - azernik 6y ago
      That would be a nice theory, but inflation in terms of producer and consumer goods is lower than in previous years (PPI inflation of 0.8% for the 12 months ending on 31 November, CPI inflation of 1.2% for the same period, compared to an average of more like 2% over the previous few years).
mcguire 6y ago
Bitcoin.
- azernik 6y ago
  Heh