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and meanwhile people are losing this businesses, their livelihoods, their mental health and absolutely everything. A women in California invested heavily in out

and meanwhile people are losing this businesses, their livelihoods, their mental health and absolutely everything. A women in California invested heavily in outdoor dining equipment, only to be shut down, and then she sees a movie production company setup a full catering set right next to her restaurant. The top infection dresses experts can be wrong. Don't appeal to authority. There are literally thousands of other doctors and scientists who say further lockdowns are not helping. The WHO is saying lockdowns should not be used except as a last resort! Don't listen to just one person. Look at all the options. Lockdowns don't work.

IgorPartola 6y ago
Seatbelts don’t work. Lots of people die in car crashes and lots of them were wearing seatbelts. Stop wearing seatbelts. Some doctors believe this. Don’t believe the experts. Be your own researcher. Your Google Fu is certainly a match for the CDC and its $6.5b yearly budget.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  It's not remotely comparable. You can test seat belts with crash dummies. It's a clear experiment, and yes, people should have been skeptical of seat belts until they were proven to be effective. Auto companies were pushing against seat-belts and safety. Today big industry is pushing for lockdowns (and we should question those motives). It's a bad argument. There are literally thousands of people in the Great Barrington Declaration, who have sound arguments for ending lockdowns. We can literally look at the numbers across the globe from different policies in different countries and see there is no direct correlational between any government action and fatalities. Correlation isn't causation, but we DO NOT even have correlation! Scientists and doctors are saying we need to end this mass hysteria. We should listen to all the experts, not only the ones we agree with.
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    > Scientists and doctors are saying we need to end this mass hysteria. We should listen to all the experts, not only the ones we agree with. To quote Wikipedia, citation needed. And please don't like to a YouTube/Facebook/Instagram whatever of someone in a white coat. I have not seen this from anyone with any reasonable credentials.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      The Great Barrington Declaration: https://gbdeclaration.org/ https://gbdeclaration.org/ Signed by literally thousands of experts, doctors and virologists.
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        In addition, early on we had statements from two front-line doctors in Bakersfield which were pulled from YouTube: https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-with-dr-dan-erickson-and-dr-artin-massihi-taken-down-from-youtube https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-wi... and we had professor Karol Sikora, who former ally worked at the WHO, discuss what he saw in his on oncology clinic (also censored on YouTube)" https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-karol-sikora-fear-is-more-dangerous-than-the-virus/ https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-karol-sikora-fear-is-mo...
      - IgorPartola 6y ago
        I was just able to sign it as a medical professional. I am not one. Literally nothing on that site is verified. I keep seeing you quote things in this thread related to this site, which as far as I can tell has zero authenticity, and to random YouTube videos. Hint: if a doctor or researcher can only publish their findings on YouTube/Facebook/Instagram, they don't have anything worthwhile to say.
        djsumdog 6y ago
        Alright, so lets not look at the signers, let's look at the clearly listed authors on that page: > Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist > Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development > Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert > Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health Some of these people have done interviews too. You can go look them up on major news programs. > Hint: if a doctor or researcher can only publish their findings on YouTube/Facebook/Instagram, they don't have anything worthwhile to say We're talking about an ongoing crisis where we see clear censorship in media, big tech and academic publications. People are basing world changing decisions off pre-prints and pre-pubs. Does it really matter where a doctor or researcher publishes their views so long as it is a real doctor or researcher? Why does the platform make their opinion invalid?
oblio 6y ago
Lockdowns 100% work. Just like the medieval term "quarantine" proved that it works, 500 years ago. They're very effective at stopping infectious diseases. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure out why they work. The side effects of lockdowns suck A LOT, but less than uncontrolled spread of a virus amongst 8 billion people. Besides the fact that it would completely destroy out healthcare systems, in which case we're back to the Middle Ages, we're a few mutations away from a much deadlier disease. It would be ultimately irresponsible to allow Covid to run rampant.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Show me the evidence. You look from nation to nation, region to region, and there is no effect at all from masks or lockdowns. You are imagining they work because the TV tells you to, but they don't.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Every time they impose a stricter lockdown where I am, numbers go down. They relax it, they go up. It's a roller coaster of disease. What have you got against lockdowns? Is it some philosophical hatred? You're not alone, governments also hate them. They do it because they have to.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      The actual numbers are totally opposite of what you say. Please show some sources. I think Shapiro covers the arguments against lockdowns very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymD9ipSm-eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymD9ipSm-eg I'm against them because they literally do not work, and they violate our basic civil rights. A man in Canada was shot months ago for not wearing a mask, after he left the store, outside his own home. In Quebec over New Years Eve, police arrested someone for having more than five people in their homes. New York wants to pass ordinances that lets them put people in camps if they're infected. This is absolute insanity. The virus is an excuse to violate all our basic human rights. The United States constitution is basically suspended at this point. Look at this woman who was arrested for trying to save her deteriorating mother locked in a care home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E390UHzTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E390UHzTY

IgorPartola 6y ago

Seatbelts don’t work. Lots of people die in car crashes and lots of them were wearing seatbelts. Stop wearing seatbelts. Some doctors believe this. Don’t believe the experts. Be your own researcher. Your Google Fu is certainly a match for the CDC and its $6.5b yearly budget.

djsumdog 6y ago
It's not remotely comparable. You can test seat belts with crash dummies. It's a clear experiment, and yes, people should have been skeptical of seat belts until they were proven to be effective. Auto companies were pushing against seat-belts and safety. Today big industry is pushing for lockdowns (and we should question those motives). It's a bad argument. There are literally thousands of people in the Great Barrington Declaration, who have sound arguments for ending lockdowns. We can literally look at the numbers across the globe from different policies in different countries and see there is no direct correlational between any government action and fatalities. Correlation isn't causation, but we DO NOT even have correlation! Scientists and doctors are saying we need to end this mass hysteria. We should listen to all the experts, not only the ones we agree with.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  > Scientists and doctors are saying we need to end this mass hysteria. We should listen to all the experts, not only the ones we agree with. To quote Wikipedia, citation needed. And please don't like to a YouTube/Facebook/Instagram whatever of someone in a white coat. I have not seen this from anyone with any reasonable credentials.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    The Great Barrington Declaration: https://gbdeclaration.org/ https://gbdeclaration.org/ Signed by literally thousands of experts, doctors and virologists.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      In addition, early on we had statements from two front-line doctors in Bakersfield which were pulled from YouTube: https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-with-dr-dan-erickson-and-dr-artin-massihi-taken-down-from-youtube https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-wi... and we had professor Karol Sikora, who former ally worked at the WHO, discuss what he saw in his on oncology clinic (also censored on YouTube)" https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-karol-sikora-fear-is-more-dangerous-than-the-virus/ https://unherd.com/thepost/professor-karol-sikora-fear-is-mo...
    - IgorPartola 6y ago
      I was just able to sign it as a medical professional. I am not one. Literally nothing on that site is verified. I keep seeing you quote things in this thread related to this site, which as far as I can tell has zero authenticity, and to random YouTube videos. Hint: if a doctor or researcher can only publish their findings on YouTube/Facebook/Instagram, they don't have anything worthwhile to say.
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        Alright, so lets not look at the signers, let's look at the clearly listed authors on that page: > Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist > Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development > Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert > Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health Some of these people have done interviews too. You can go look them up on major news programs. > Hint: if a doctor or researcher can only publish their findings on YouTube/Facebook/Instagram, they don't have anything worthwhile to say We're talking about an ongoing crisis where we see clear censorship in media, big tech and academic publications. People are basing world changing decisions off pre-prints and pre-pubs. Does it really matter where a doctor or researcher publishes their views so long as it is a real doctor or researcher? Why does the platform make their opinion invalid?

oblio 6y ago

Lockdowns 100% work. Just like the medieval term "quarantine" proved that it works, 500 years ago. They're very effective at stopping infectious diseases. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure out why they work. The side effects of lockdowns suck A LOT, but less than uncontrolled spread of a virus amongst 8 billion people. Besides the fact that it would completely destroy out healthcare systems, in which case we're back to the Middle Ages, we're a few mutations away from a much deadlier disease. It would be ultimately irresponsible to allow Covid to run rampant.

djsumdog 6y ago
Show me the evidence. You look from nation to nation, region to region, and there is no effect at all from masks or lockdowns. You are imagining they work because the TV tells you to, but they don't.
- oblio 6y ago
  Every time they impose a stricter lockdown where I am, numbers go down. They relax it, they go up. It's a roller coaster of disease. What have you got against lockdowns? Is it some philosophical hatred? You're not alone, governments also hate them. They do it because they have to.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    The actual numbers are totally opposite of what you say. Please show some sources. I think Shapiro covers the arguments against lockdowns very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymD9ipSm-eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymD9ipSm-eg I'm against them because they literally do not work, and they violate our basic civil rights. A man in Canada was shot months ago for not wearing a mask, after he left the store, outside his own home. In Quebec over New Years Eve, police arrested someone for having more than five people in their homes. New York wants to pass ordinances that lets them put people in camps if they're infected. This is absolute insanity. The virus is an excuse to violate all our basic human rights. The United States constitution is basically suspended at this point. Look at this woman who was arrested for trying to save her deteriorating mother locked in a care home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E390UHzTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E390UHzTY