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It is far more plausible that people are just deliberately looking for reasons to fit a 'CCP bad' narrative. X happens: "CCP is bad" Opposite of X happens: "C

It is far more plausible that people are just deliberately looking for reasons to fit a 'CCP bad' narrative. X happens: "CCP is bad" Opposite of X happens: "CCP is bad" What is this, a children's story? Where is all the nuance? Reality can't be reduced to a simple "X is bad" narrative. This narrative overshadows the actual issues, and thus produces nonsense. Note that nearly nobody talks about the ACTUAL financial issue, which is that Ant's way of dealing with money is very dangerous and has the potential to cause a financial crisis. Yes I know the regulator's timing is suspicious. But to completely ignore the actual issue, or to casually brush it away as an illegitimate distraction, and instead to focus 100% on just the 'CCP bad' narrative, is just sensationalism, stereotyping and oversimplification.

MichaelZuo 6y ago
You’ve hit on the fundamental problem of intellectual discussion. It’s impossible to competently discuss entities more sophisticated than oneself, by definition. If one comprehends all the competing and confounding factors involved in the actions of the CCP, for example, then they would at least be as sophisticated as the CCP, by definition. If not, then sooner or later reality intrudes. Of course it may be that no human is intelligent enough to actually comprehend all the dynamics within an organization of 100+ million. Therefore no one on this planet, even in China, fully understands all the factions, factors, reasonings, etc., of such an organization. And actions may happen for mysterious reasons because no one fully comprehends all the underlying reasons.
- ghostwriter 6y ago
  > If one comprehends all the competing and confounding factors involved in the actions of the CCP, for example, then they would at least be as sophisticated as the CCP, by definition. > Of course it may be that no human is intelligent enough to actually comprehend all the dynamics within an organization of 100+ million. "The knowledge of some principles easily compensates for the ignorance of some facts", a.k.a. you really don't need to know how shit tastes to keep away from it, you just need to know what it looks like.
  - MichaelZuo 6y ago
    What if the ‘shit’ you mention was capable of self organization and self-modification and self-evolution towards goals, and through techniques, that may confound your senses? In fact this example is a bit humorous because there is a type of fruit called the ‘miracle berry’ that is sold commercially to trick the taste receptors on human tongues, turning sour foods into sweet tasting foods temporarily. I am sure if it doesn’t already exist one day products will be created to do so for the entire taste spectrum and beyond that all the human senses... Genuinely beneficial things may be disguised as harmful and vice versa in such an environment. And then we would be back to the original point.
    - ghostwriter 6y ago
      > What if the ‘shit’ you mention was capable of self organization and self-modification and self-evolution towards goals, and through techniques, that may confound your senses? What if we could see how phenomena draw projections in the fourth dimension and reveal that the same underlying traits of these self-modifying and self-evolving entities? a.k.a. we can play imaginary worlds infinitely deep. But the bottom-line of the previous comment was that people are conceptually-reasoning beings, and we can build and refine meaningful ideas and abstractions that help us to properly orient ourselves in the world. The proof of that would be the fact that you and I are interacting here on HN, and neither of us comprehends the full complexity of the systems (and relations between them) that provide us this ability.

MichaelZuo 6y ago

You’ve hit on the fundamental problem of intellectual discussion. It’s impossible to competently discuss entities more sophisticated than oneself, by definition. If one comprehends all the competing and confounding factors involved in the actions of the CCP, for example, then they would at least be as sophisticated as the CCP, by definition. If not, then sooner or later reality intrudes. Of course it may be that no human is intelligent enough to actually comprehend all the dynamics within an organization of 100+ million. Therefore no one on this planet, even in China, fully understands all the factions, factors, reasonings, etc., of such an organization. And actions may happen for mysterious reasons because no one fully comprehends all the underlying reasons.

ghostwriter 6y ago
> If one comprehends all the competing and confounding factors involved in the actions of the CCP, for example, then they would at least be as sophisticated as the CCP, by definition. > Of course it may be that no human is intelligent enough to actually comprehend all the dynamics within an organization of 100+ million. "The knowledge of some principles easily compensates for the ignorance of some facts", a.k.a. you really don't need to know how shit tastes to keep away from it, you just need to know what it looks like.
- MichaelZuo 6y ago
  What if the ‘shit’ you mention was capable of self organization and self-modification and self-evolution towards goals, and through techniques, that may confound your senses? In fact this example is a bit humorous because there is a type of fruit called the ‘miracle berry’ that is sold commercially to trick the taste receptors on human tongues, turning sour foods into sweet tasting foods temporarily. I am sure if it doesn’t already exist one day products will be created to do so for the entire taste spectrum and beyond that all the human senses... Genuinely beneficial things may be disguised as harmful and vice versa in such an environment. And then we would be back to the original point.
  - ghostwriter 6y ago
    > What if the ‘shit’ you mention was capable of self organization and self-modification and self-evolution towards goals, and through techniques, that may confound your senses? What if we could see how phenomena draw projections in the fourth dimension and reveal that the same underlying traits of these self-modifying and self-evolving entities? a.k.a. we can play imaginary worlds infinitely deep. But the bottom-line of the previous comment was that people are conceptually-reasoning beings, and we can build and refine meaningful ideas and abstractions that help us to properly orient ourselves in the world. The proof of that would be the fact that you and I are interacting here on HN, and neither of us comprehends the full complexity of the systems (and relations between them) that provide us this ability.