4 ms·

>Speculations about China have a tendency to view everything through the "CCP is evil and the only thing that's constantly on their minds is how to kill/jail/in

by reddog 6y ago

>Speculations about China have a tendency to view everything through the "CCP is evil and the only thing that's constantly on their minds is how to kill/jail/invade more" lens. That's because they are unquestionably, unambiguously evil. The CCP has murdered more people than any organization in the history of the world -- more than the nazis, more than the bolsheviks. But unlike the nazis or bolsheviks, the CCP death count continues to increase every day.

FooBarWidget 6y ago
Regardless of the truth of your narrative, viewing EVERY SINGLE ISSUE through the "x is evil" narrative is guaranteed to produce nonsense. We're very close to "a traffic accident occurred? Oh it's because evil CCP forces drivers to run over innocent people"
- acct776 6y ago
  I disagree we are near to that, and believe if we don't keep an eye on their tactics and society, we will have them exported to us, upon us.
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    That is a great attitude to justify a war by creating imaginary enemies. Are they a competitor and do they want to protect their interests? Yes. Export their governance model to you? No, why would they want to do that? China just signed the RCEP -- an initiative by ASEAN. Clearly their neighbors don't think they're going to invade make everyone their slaves.
    - ghostwriter 6y ago
      > Export their governance model to you? No, why would they want to do that? ever heard of Taiwan, Hong Kong? They are trying hard to keep away from this plague at the moment, if you haven't noticed. But please don't start another thread on how CCP claims their legitimacy over all chinese territories, because that would be indeed a true fairytale for children you mentioned above.
      - FooBarWidget 6y ago
        Neither of those cases have got anything to do with CCP wanting to export their governance model or invade foreign countries. This is apparent if you look at the historical context of the issues in those areas. China isn't in Hong Kong because they're afraid of democracy. Under British rule, Hong Kong never had democracy in the first place. In 2014, CCP offered a limited form free elections for Hong Kong -- that's more democracy than under British Hong Kong. Why would they do that if they want to destroy democracy? The Hong Kong opposition shot down the proposal because they wanted more concessions. Unfortunate, because if it was accepted, it could have paved way for more democratization down the road. As for Taiwan, the conflict exists because it's a leftover of the Chinese civil war. At the end of WW2, the Chinese Nationalist Party fled to Taiwan -- a part of the [People's Republic of China]'s predecessor, the [Republic of China]. Officially, both Taiwan and China claim to be the legitimate goverment of the whole of China -- this is the One China Principle. Heck, Taiwan' s modern-day flag is the exact same as that of the Republic of China. Ever heard of Macau? It's democratic, part of China, and is doing fine under One Country Two Systems. Whether anyone thinks Hong Kong and Taiwan should or should not be independent is besides the point, as well as totally irrelevant. The CCP has issues in those areas because they are, or used to be Chinese terrority. These issues are not new, and have been there since the founding of the People's Republic in 1949, back when the CCP was small and weak and in no position to invade anybody. But these issues persist because many mainland Chinese people care. Unity is and has been a Chinese core value for thousands of years. The issues don't persist because the CCP is evil and want to destroy democracy. Even if Hong Kong and Taiwan were under a seperate communist rule, the CCP would still have issues with those areas. The narrative that China is an expansionist invader is based on the twisting of half-truths, for the purpose of painting a "China threat" in order to justify spending more money on the military industrial complex. China has not fought a war or shot a bullet outside its borders for more than 30 years. In fact, if you take out the People's Republic's map, and compare ot to the maps of the last 2 predecessors (the Republic, and the Qing dynasty), you'll see that the People's Republic's map is smaller.
        ksec 6y ago
        >Under British rule, Hong Kong never had democracy in the first place. British Hong Kong has elected local council and officials that are given power and budget within their constituency. The small council was disband just after 1997. Hong Kong had far more democracy than it ever had under China.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tom-_- 6y ago
  Yes, the "X is Evil and Evil do what Evil does" kind of reductive and anti-intellectual arguments here are disappointing. I'll offer an alternative, although admittedly simplistic lens to understand the actions of the CCP: To pull their population of 1.4 billion people out of poverty. To which political stability is essential.

by reddog 6y ago

FooBarWidget 6y ago

Regardless of the truth of your narrative, viewing EVERY SINGLE ISSUE through the "x is evil" narrative is guaranteed to produce nonsense. We're very close to "a traffic accident occurred? Oh it's because evil CCP forces drivers to run over innocent people"

acct776 6y ago
I disagree we are near to that, and believe if we don't keep an eye on their tactics and society, we will have them exported to us, upon us.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  That is a great attitude to justify a war by creating imaginary enemies. Are they a competitor and do they want to protect their interests? Yes. Export their governance model to you? No, why would they want to do that? China just signed the RCEP -- an initiative by ASEAN. Clearly their neighbors don't think they're going to invade make everyone their slaves.
  - ghostwriter 6y ago
    > Export their governance model to you? No, why would they want to do that? ever heard of Taiwan, Hong Kong? They are trying hard to keep away from this plague at the moment, if you haven't noticed. But please don't start another thread on how CCP claims their legitimacy over all chinese territories, because that would be indeed a true fairytale for children you mentioned above.
    - FooBarWidget 6y ago
      Neither of those cases have got anything to do with CCP wanting to export their governance model or invade foreign countries. This is apparent if you look at the historical context of the issues in those areas. China isn't in Hong Kong because they're afraid of democracy. Under British rule, Hong Kong never had democracy in the first place. In 2014, CCP offered a limited form free elections for Hong Kong -- that's more democracy than under British Hong Kong. Why would they do that if they want to destroy democracy? The Hong Kong opposition shot down the proposal because they wanted more concessions. Unfortunate, because if it was accepted, it could have paved way for more democratization down the road. As for Taiwan, the conflict exists because it's a leftover of the Chinese civil war. At the end of WW2, the Chinese Nationalist Party fled to Taiwan -- a part of the [People's Republic of China]'s predecessor, the [Republic of China]. Officially, both Taiwan and China claim to be the legitimate goverment of the whole of China -- this is the One China Principle. Heck, Taiwan' s modern-day flag is the exact same as that of the Republic of China. Ever heard of Macau? It's democratic, part of China, and is doing fine under One Country Two Systems. Whether anyone thinks Hong Kong and Taiwan should or should not be independent is besides the point, as well as totally irrelevant. The CCP has issues in those areas because they are, or used to be Chinese terrority. These issues are not new, and have been there since the founding of the People's Republic in 1949, back when the CCP was small and weak and in no position to invade anybody. But these issues persist because many mainland Chinese people care. Unity is and has been a Chinese core value for thousands of years. The issues don't persist because the CCP is evil and want to destroy democracy. Even if Hong Kong and Taiwan were under a seperate communist rule, the CCP would still have issues with those areas. The narrative that China is an expansionist invader is based on the twisting of half-truths, for the purpose of painting a "China threat" in order to justify spending more money on the military industrial complex. China has not fought a war or shot a bullet outside its borders for more than 30 years. In fact, if you take out the People's Republic's map, and compare ot to the maps of the last 2 predecessors (the Republic, and the Qing dynasty), you'll see that the People's Republic's map is smaller.
      - ksec 6y ago
        >Under British rule, Hong Kong never had democracy in the first place. British Hong Kong has elected local council and officials that are given power and budget within their constituency. The small council was disband just after 1997. Hong Kong had far more democracy than it ever had under China.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tom-_- 6y ago
Yes, the "X is Evil and Evil do what Evil does" kind of reductive and anti-intellectual arguments here are disappointing. I'll offer an alternative, although admittedly simplistic lens to understand the actions of the CCP: To pull their population of 1.4 billion people out of poverty. To which political stability is essential.