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Agreed! But did I miss the part where the Epstein conspiracy theory was demonstrated to be true?

calvinmorrison 6y ago
Yeah. Without pulling up sources it's on his second paragraph of his wikipedia page, which tends to avoid conspiracies etc. "He developed an elite social circle and procured many women and children who were then sexually abused by Epstein and some of his contacts."
- pdabbadabba 6y ago
  Oh, that part. Absolutely. I didn't even realize that was ever considered a conspiracy theory. I thought GP was referring to his death!
  - nautilus12 6y ago
    Was most certainly branded as a conspiracy theory until it was revealed. This is why I think people are more apt to believe other conspiracy theories around him as well
    - jberryman 6y ago
      What do you mean "until it was revealed"? There was some pretty exhaustive reporting a decade and a half ago, but no one really payed much attention. And certainly his high-profile connections weren't a secret. Conspiracy-minded people imagine a deep shroud of secrecy around the Epstein affair that doesn't really exist.
      - mistermann 6y ago
        > There was some pretty exhaustive reporting a decade and a half ago, but no one really payed much attention. Considering how the media and public seem to usually enjoy getting their panties in a knot when the topic of child molestation arises, is this historic lack of interest combined with the current lack of interest not somewhat suggestive that something a little unusual might be going on here? > a deep shroud of secrecy around the Epstein affair that doesn't really exist Out of curiosity, how does one come to know such a thing? Do you have access to a data source that the rest of us don't?
        jberryman 6y ago
        I don't really understand your comment, but to restate my own: the Epstein stuff was basically all a matter of public record. I don't claim to have insight into why certain news stories and court cases become more popular than others.
        mistermann 6y ago
        My first comment is an observance that both the public and the media usually exhibit intense interest in matters that involve the sexual abuse of a child. Considering the Epstein affair involves the alleged systemic abuse of multiple children over a long period of time, and it involves celebrities (which itself usually attracts significant attention), the minimal level of interest it has received from the public and the media seems rather counter-intuitive. Regarding my second comment, I was noting that you seem to have a sense of omniscience about you: - "...a deep shroud of secrecy around the Epstein affair that doesn't really exist." - "...the Epstein stuff was basically all a matter of public record." Of course, if there was in fact a shroud of secrecy, or if some evidence on Epstein was not made available on the public record, you would have no way of knowing this. Yet, you speak as if you do know. My armchair psychologist theory is that these sorts of incredibly common logical errors (several of which can be seen in this thread) are due to subconscious heuristics running on binary (True/False) logic rather than ternary (True/False/Unknown) logic. The human mind, both subconscious and conscious really seems to struggle with Null/Unknown. I have the impression that this phenomenon is increasing over time (perhaps due to increased internet usage, plus Trump), but I don't know how one might go about measuring such a thing.
        acct776 6y ago
        Probable CIA asset running underage sex slaves for the elite wasn't exactly of public record, was it? Or, rather: was it splashed over social media? Because statistically, nobody's reading, these days..as disgusting as I feel having written that.
      - acct776 6y ago
        Can people living in Virginia have an unbiased opinion on this?
- throwaway80332 6y ago
  > Without pulling up sources it's on his second paragraph of his wikipedia page, which tends to avoid conspiracies etc. Slightly off topic, but I'm so happy wikipedia has finally stepped up an gotten rid of the stupid conspiracy theories that used to ruin their articles in the past because they turned a blind eye to the racist patriarchy of old white men that oppresses the working class and minorities.
choward 6y ago
Maybe they're referring to his actual crimes and not the conspiracy theory about how he died.
- lsalvatore 6y ago
  Right, because there is nothing suspicious at all about how the camera footage mysteriously disappeared on the night he died.
  - pdabbadabba 6y ago
    Sure. But that is the sort of thing that one says about something that is still a conspiracy theory. It hardly demonstrates that he was murdered with sufficient clarify to elevate this to the realm of accepted fact.
    - throwaway80332 6y ago
      And thankfully, the new algorithm will be able to quickly identify the perpetrators who spread those insane conspiracy theories so they can be Epsteined as well
    - vpmpaul 6y ago
      Epstein was possibly the most high profile case of child sex trafficking linked to people in power in all of history. Instead of being treated as such every procedure, protocol, and standard were botched, disregarded, "glitched", ignored, ect. You are never gonna get a video of Clinton, ect confessing to buying child prostitutes from Epstine.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - intotheabyss 6y ago
        I don't know. I find it more likely that people are just incompetent. The world is not nearly as finely run as conspiracy theorists like to think it is. Epstein was never going to allow himself to rot away in jail, so it's zero surprise that he committed suicide. He's never had to deal with the consequences of his actions, why would he start then?
lsalvatore 6y ago
Well the footage of his death was "accidentally" erased. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51053205 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51053205
- thamer 6y ago
  That's pretty bad. It's also not particularly surprising to see more incompetence from a prison where guards did not do their job correctly and even went as far as falsifying records about their activities on the night of to cover their asses (regarding a detainee that had just been on suicide watch, no less). Their trial for these actions is set to start in June, after multiple delays. You need a seriously screwed-up culture in the detention facility for this to even be considered by guards, much less attempted. Why would anyone assume that only the two guards that were indicted are somehow the only bad apples there and that everyone else is great at their job? It would be interesting to compare the guards at this facility with others on topics like complaints from detainees or disciplinary actions, to get a better idea of how unusual this behavior was. So far 100% of the COs involved have demonstrated to be highly incompetent and even dishonest. I have no particular opinion about what exactly happened to cause his death (mainly because I don't pass judgment based on the little evidence I have) but it's easy to see why many would consider these actions proof of a conspiracy though.
corona-research 6y ago
None. Epstein killed himself. Everything else is a conspiracy theory of stupid people. We should laugh about them. We are so much smarter. People would never do sth like that just because of power. All people are nice and have good intentions. Questioning the intentions of people in power is a stupid conspiracy for morons.

Yeah. Without pulling up sources it's on his second paragraph of his wikipedia page, which tends to avoid conspiracies etc. "He developed an elite social circle and procured many women and children who were then sexually abused by Epstein and some of his contacts."

pdabbadabba 6y ago
Oh, that part. Absolutely. I didn't even realize that was ever considered a conspiracy theory. I thought GP was referring to his death!
- nautilus12 6y ago
  Was most certainly branded as a conspiracy theory until it was revealed. This is why I think people are more apt to believe other conspiracy theories around him as well
  - jberryman 6y ago
    What do you mean "until it was revealed"? There was some pretty exhaustive reporting a decade and a half ago, but no one really payed much attention. And certainly his high-profile connections weren't a secret. Conspiracy-minded people imagine a deep shroud of secrecy around the Epstein affair that doesn't really exist.
    - mistermann 6y ago
      > There was some pretty exhaustive reporting a decade and a half ago, but no one really payed much attention. Considering how the media and public seem to usually enjoy getting their panties in a knot when the topic of child molestation arises, is this historic lack of interest combined with the current lack of interest not somewhat suggestive that something a little unusual might be going on here? > a deep shroud of secrecy around the Epstein affair that doesn't really exist Out of curiosity, how does one come to know such a thing? Do you have access to a data source that the rest of us don't?
      - jberryman 6y ago
        I don't really understand your comment, but to restate my own: the Epstein stuff was basically all a matter of public record. I don't claim to have insight into why certain news stories and court cases become more popular than others.
        mistermann 6y ago
        My first comment is an observance that both the public and the media usually exhibit intense interest in matters that involve the sexual abuse of a child. Considering the Epstein affair involves the alleged systemic abuse of multiple children over a long period of time, and it involves celebrities (which itself usually attracts significant attention), the minimal level of interest it has received from the public and the media seems rather counter-intuitive. Regarding my second comment, I was noting that you seem to have a sense of omniscience about you: - "...a deep shroud of secrecy around the Epstein affair that doesn't really exist." - "...the Epstein stuff was basically all a matter of public record." Of course, if there was in fact a shroud of secrecy, or if some evidence on Epstein was not made available on the public record, you would have no way of knowing this. Yet, you speak as if you do know. My armchair psychologist theory is that these sorts of incredibly common logical errors (several of which can be seen in this thread) are due to subconscious heuristics running on binary (True/False) logic rather than ternary (True/False/Unknown) logic. The human mind, both subconscious and conscious really seems to struggle with Null/Unknown. I have the impression that this phenomenon is increasing over time (perhaps due to increased internet usage, plus Trump), but I don't know how one might go about measuring such a thing.
        acct776 6y ago
        Probable CIA asset running underage sex slaves for the elite wasn't exactly of public record, was it? Or, rather: was it splashed over social media? Because statistically, nobody's reading, these days..as disgusting as I feel having written that.
    - acct776 6y ago
      Can people living in Virginia have an unbiased opinion on this?
throwaway80332 6y ago
> Without pulling up sources it's on his second paragraph of his wikipedia page, which tends to avoid conspiracies etc. Slightly off topic, but I'm so happy wikipedia has finally stepped up an gotten rid of the stupid conspiracy theories that used to ruin their articles in the past because they turned a blind eye to the racist patriarchy of old white men that oppresses the working class and minorities.

choward 6y ago

Maybe they're referring to his actual crimes and not the conspiracy theory about how he died.

lsalvatore 6y ago
Right, because there is nothing suspicious at all about how the camera footage mysteriously disappeared on the night he died.
- pdabbadabba 6y ago
  Sure. But that is the sort of thing that one says about something that is still a conspiracy theory. It hardly demonstrates that he was murdered with sufficient clarify to elevate this to the realm of accepted fact.
  - throwaway80332 6y ago
    And thankfully, the new algorithm will be able to quickly identify the perpetrators who spread those insane conspiracy theories so they can be Epsteined as well
  - vpmpaul 6y ago
    Epstein was possibly the most high profile case of child sex trafficking linked to people in power in all of history. Instead of being treated as such every procedure, protocol, and standard were botched, disregarded, "glitched", ignored, ect. You are never gonna get a video of Clinton, ect confessing to buying child prostitutes from Epstine.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - intotheabyss 6y ago
      I don't know. I find it more likely that people are just incompetent. The world is not nearly as finely run as conspiracy theorists like to think it is. Epstein was never going to allow himself to rot away in jail, so it's zero surprise that he committed suicide. He's never had to deal with the consequences of his actions, why would he start then?

lsalvatore 6y ago

Well the footage of his death was "accidentally" erased. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51053205 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51053205

thamer 6y ago
That's pretty bad. It's also not particularly surprising to see more incompetence from a prison where guards did not do their job correctly and even went as far as falsifying records about their activities on the night of to cover their asses (regarding a detainee that had just been on suicide watch, no less). Their trial for these actions is set to start in June, after multiple delays. You need a seriously screwed-up culture in the detention facility for this to even be considered by guards, much less attempted. Why would anyone assume that only the two guards that were indicted are somehow the only bad apples there and that everyone else is great at their job? It would be interesting to compare the guards at this facility with others on topics like complaints from detainees or disciplinary actions, to get a better idea of how unusual this behavior was. So far 100% of the COs involved have demonstrated to be highly incompetent and even dishonest. I have no particular opinion about what exactly happened to cause his death (mainly because I don't pass judgment based on the little evidence I have) but it's easy to see why many would consider these actions proof of a conspiracy though.

corona-research 6y ago

None. Epstein killed himself. Everything else is a conspiracy theory of stupid people. We should laugh about them. We are so much smarter. People would never do sth like that just because of power. All people are nice and have good intentions. Questioning the intentions of people in power is a stupid conspiracy for morons.