4 ms·

This is the elephant in the room. Unions make it much harder to fire low performers. I think they have great benefits, but this terrible side effect. For anot

• rzz3 6y ago
  Public unions are a bad idea in general. The citizens collectively employ the government, and that government shouldn’t have a right to organize against the people whom it serves. So in my opinion, these two examples of toxic public unions shouldn’t be applied to private unions.
  • nemo44x 6y ago
    I agree. I’m indifferent to private sector unions. None of my business if it isn’t my workplace. But public sector unions are a path to corruption. Both major parties exploit these so I can’t blame a single party here either. What better way to consolidate power than by aligning with a public service union and “bargain” with them while being incentivized to grow membership in that union to further consolidate power. If anything I’d support public sector unions if members were not allowed to vote for offices that represent their “management” or control their budgets. Could you imagine a private sector union appointing the management of the company they negotiate with?
    • HideousKojima 6y ago
      >Both major parties exploit these so I can’t blame a single party here either. Republicans in Wisconsin abolished public unions back in 2011 (though admittedly they had exemptions for police and firefighters) and there was nationwide outrage from the left about it. There have been recent calls from the left to abolish police unions but those seem almost exclusively about police unions' ability to protect corrupt/brutal/racist cops and not about their ability to bilk taxpayers. So while it's not completely clearcut, the right has a much better record for opposing public unions than the left.
      • nemo44x 6y ago
        Republicans have only opposed the unions that don’t support them. Police unions, like the ones in Wisconsin, supported Gov. Walker so he conveniently didn’t break them. That’s corrupt in my opinion and unprincipled. You have begun to see labor movements distance themselves from police unions. I’d expect at some point it will be politically acceptable for Democrats in places like Wisconsin to strike back at them, which I’d support. So long as the other unions in the public sector are broken too. No public sector should be able to unionize. If these groups want to lobby then fine. Lobbying, although corrupt in many ways, does not beholden tax payers to corrupt contracts.
    • maxerickson 6y ago
      Unions in many places explicitly have board seats. No need to imagine it. Of course a board seat is not voting control over management.
    • door99 6y ago
      > Could you imagine a private sector union appointing the management of the company they negotiate with? Yes that would be fantastic.
• Mauricebranagh 6y ago
  No actually what unions do is make sure that any "firing" is done fairly and with the law and not used to harass or discriminate.
• datavirtue 6y ago
  The barrier to removal creates low performers. I worked in education for years and saw first hand how lazy and shitty grown adults can be (professors). However, I would never condone eliminating unions. The faculty need a bastion against those who control the money ("the administration")--think about the separation of powers between the legislative and executive branches. Otherwise you would never have the few professors that make the whole system worth it. We need to strengthen unions and make sure the unions' and management are aligned on the same objective. This takes a rational and inclusive approach by both sides. In my experience if either side is mainly concerned with their own silo the whole thing gets very toxic. Unionized employees are not the enemy and neither are management.