6 ms·

You forgot Obama https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/commentary/world-commentary/obama-war-peace/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/co

You forgot Obama https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/commentary/world-commentary/obama-war-peace/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/commentary/w...

h0l0cube 6y ago
What's particularly disappointing is that Obama was elected after promising to end US military operations in the Middle East, and did much the opposite. Bush could at least be said to be doing what was expected of him, in continuing the legacy of his father. Voters should really be holding their leaders to account the fiscal and moral costs of these wars, especially given their strategic objectives haven't been met. OTOH, one could argue it's kept a lot of people employed, and those people vote too.
- op03 6y ago
  Well Obama like Trump is a celeb more than a leader. Celebs spend all day pandering to their fan clubs to survive. Leaders dont. And the US is celeb obsessed. So thats a big bug in the code.
  - Dirlewanger 6y ago
    You're getting downvoted, but it's true. Obama ushered in the age of the political personality cult. Pretty much every election from here on out is going to hinge on how well you can sell the politician's personality, and brushing aside his platform, all his shady connections and people he's aligned with. This is very much a byproduct of all the private money in election campaigning.
    - reallydontask 6y ago
      I find it hard to square your statement with the election of Joe Biden, is he an outlier? I guess only time will tell.
      - parineum 6y ago
        Biden's political personality is not Trump. I think that invalidates the theory a bit but the personality cult that got Biden elected was anti-Trump, not pro-Biden.
    - pintxo 6y ago
      How's this different from Kennedy + Reagan?
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  > in continuing the legacy of his father. And retaliating for the 9/11 attacks, of course.
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    It's possible to make this argument about Afghanistan, but Iraq was completely unrelated to 9/11.
    - bagacrap 6y ago
      there certainly was a connection, if not a logical one
      - h0l0cube 6y ago
        There's a connection to the gulf war, but that's about it. The threat of WMDs was a concoction. And Iraq is Shia majority, whereas the Wahhabi jihadists and the Taliban, the incubator for the 9/11 terrorists, are supported by Sunni majority countries with completely different and consequential views on their religious texts. After Iraq was 'liberated' from Saddam, a Sunni leader, Iran, another Shia majority country, has been able to take political control of the country.
hestefisk 6y ago
I did say other associates.
tootie 6y ago
That article is grossly inaccurate. It's one thing to say "Obama applied hard power more than was expected" as opposed to "He was worse than Bush" which is completely unjustified. There is absolute no equivalence between drone usage and the two ground wars engaged by Bush. The 2 week Shock and Awe campaign in Iraq dropped more ordinance and killed more people than 8 years of drones. And the drone campaigns were mostly carried out with the private consent of the nations with targets. And saying the Libyan Civil War was "US-led" is just a complete lie. It was most directly lead by Libyans, but the air campaign was led by France.

You forgot Obama https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/commentary/world-commentary/obama-war-peace/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/commentary/w...

h0l0cube 6y ago

What's particularly disappointing is that Obama was elected after promising to end US military operations in the Middle East, and did much the opposite. Bush could at least be said to be doing what was expected of him, in continuing the legacy of his father. Voters should really be holding their leaders to account the fiscal and moral costs of these wars, especially given their strategic objectives haven't been met. OTOH, one could argue it's kept a lot of people employed, and those people vote too.

op03 6y ago
Well Obama like Trump is a celeb more than a leader. Celebs spend all day pandering to their fan clubs to survive. Leaders dont. And the US is celeb obsessed. So thats a big bug in the code.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  You're getting downvoted, but it's true. Obama ushered in the age of the political personality cult. Pretty much every election from here on out is going to hinge on how well you can sell the politician's personality, and brushing aside his platform, all his shady connections and people he's aligned with. This is very much a byproduct of all the private money in election campaigning.
  - reallydontask 6y ago
    I find it hard to square your statement with the election of Joe Biden, is he an outlier? I guess only time will tell.
    - parineum 6y ago
      Biden's political personality is not Trump. I think that invalidates the theory a bit but the personality cult that got Biden elected was anti-Trump, not pro-Biden.
  - pintxo 6y ago
    How's this different from Kennedy + Reagan?
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
> in continuing the legacy of his father. And retaliating for the 9/11 attacks, of course.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  It's possible to make this argument about Afghanistan, but Iraq was completely unrelated to 9/11.
  - bagacrap 6y ago
    there certainly was a connection, if not a logical one
    - h0l0cube 6y ago
      There's a connection to the gulf war, but that's about it. The threat of WMDs was a concoction. And Iraq is Shia majority, whereas the Wahhabi jihadists and the Taliban, the incubator for the 9/11 terrorists, are supported by Sunni majority countries with completely different and consequential views on their religious texts. After Iraq was 'liberated' from Saddam, a Sunni leader, Iran, another Shia majority country, has been able to take political control of the country.

hestefisk 6y ago

I did say other associates.

tootie 6y ago

That article is grossly inaccurate. It's one thing to say "Obama applied hard power more than was expected" as opposed to "He was worse than Bush" which is completely unjustified. There is absolute no equivalence between drone usage and the two ground wars engaged by Bush. The 2 week Shock and Awe campaign in Iraq dropped more ordinance and killed more people than 8 years of drones. And the drone campaigns were mostly carried out with the private consent of the nations with targets. And saying the Libyan Civil War was "US-led" is just a complete lie. It was most directly lead by Libyans, but the air campaign was led by France.