6 ms·

Stuff I really-really dislike when people start talking about 'adjustments because of difference in cost of living'. Stop that bullshit. Be frank, and say that

Stuff I really-really dislike when people start talking about 'adjustments because of difference in cost of living'. Stop that bullshit. Be frank, and say that compensations will be different because the market is different. That's it. 'Cost of living' is bullshit without specifying what 'living' means. That needs you to specify what your employees should be spending their income on. If an Ukrainian employee spends all they income on buying houses and going to restaurants and hairdressers, then their cost of living is really way cheaper than someone living in, say, London and buying similar houses and eating in similar restaurants. However, if our imaginary Ukrainian employee wants to buy cars, gadgets or wants access to high-quality healthcare, then suddenly the cost of living is _higher_ for them than for someone living in London. So screw the bullshit around 'cost of living'. Do whatever you prefer about compensation, but be straight about it. (The article is not great, though, e.g. stuff like "Whatever one's situation is, however difficult a negotiation might be, treat people like they were your friends" -- well, no, your colleagues are not your friends; some of them might be, but you better have friends as your direct reports.)

marcus_holmes 6y ago
> treat people like they were your friends that's not saying "these are your friends", it's saying "treat them like they were your friends". They're clearly not your actual friends, but negotiating is easier and gets better outcomes if you're friendly and positive. Starting a negotiation with an unfriendly and hostile or combatative attitude doesn't work as well.
- sz4kerto 6y ago
  Maybe I'm just nitpicking, in that case I apologize, but: Treating someone as a friend and being friendly are very different. Sometimes I am very assertive, pushy with my friends, and make them uncomfortable. I'd like to think that I'm doing that when making them uncomfortable is in their interest (e.g. telling someone to stop doing something that's harmful for them is definitely not a 'friendly' thing to do). In a business setting, being friendly can simply be means to squeezing more value out of a person. Therefore I'd be careful with my words here: if TFA wants to say 'friendly' then that is what it should do instead of saying that "treat people like they were your friends".
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    I'm Australian. I call my mates "cunt" and cunts "mate". I know what you mean ;)
crdrost 6y ago
This is the key point that I wish people understood. From an economic standpoint, articles like this one are really just arguing that the supply and demand in several different markets should be lumped together and aggregated. the claim is that these different markets aren't actually selling a different product; so there is something like Marx's labor theory of value going on or something. But it just seems dubious. It's different if you are arguing that they will inevitably merge. But if you're arguing that we should artificially merge them, that doesn't make a terribly large amount of sense to me. Or that we should not merge them but we should just act irrationally in a market to be consistent with our actions in another market, again, that sounds like people being excessively idealistic.
- cheph 6y ago
  > This is the key point that I wish people understood. From an economic standpoint, articles like this one are really just arguing that the supply and demand in several different markets should be lumped together and aggregated. No, it is not. This article is arguing the opposite. The article is arguing that you should ignore the fact that the labour market changes and still demand that you get market rates for some arbitrary other market which is no longer the market that you are operating in. If this article was arguing we should artificially merge all markets they would not have a problem with getting a pay cut when the market becomes the whole of US instead of SV.
WA 6y ago
This. If I have to support my parents financially and physically, my cost of living are higher in a rural area than living like a student in SF. So what makes cost of living? It’s a BS metric.
- JackFr 6y ago
  Well your employer cares not a whit what it costs you to live. In aggregate though it is useful as a baseline estimate of how they are going to adjust salaries between locations. Remember, it’s not just software engineers. Receptionists, drivers and food service workers likely make different wages in different locales, and are not typically involved in intense individual HR negotiations.
deleted 6y ago
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lemonspat 6y ago
I really don’t understand your argument. NY and SF cost 4x for just housing from where I live, and the food & taxes are more expensive. Call it cost-of-housing or cost-of-equal-expenses, or whatever but the name doesn’t matter. The costs to the employee are different But I’m a remote employee right now and do want equal pay

marcus_holmes 6y ago

> treat people like they were your friends that's not saying "these are your friends", it's saying "treat them like they were your friends". They're clearly not your actual friends, but negotiating is easier and gets better outcomes if you're friendly and positive. Starting a negotiation with an unfriendly and hostile or combatative attitude doesn't work as well.

sz4kerto 6y ago
Maybe I'm just nitpicking, in that case I apologize, but: Treating someone as a friend and being friendly are very different. Sometimes I am very assertive, pushy with my friends, and make them uncomfortable. I'd like to think that I'm doing that when making them uncomfortable is in their interest (e.g. telling someone to stop doing something that's harmful for them is definitely not a 'friendly' thing to do). In a business setting, being friendly can simply be means to squeezing more value out of a person. Therefore I'd be careful with my words here: if TFA wants to say 'friendly' then that is what it should do instead of saying that "treat people like they were your friends".
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  I'm Australian. I call my mates "cunt" and cunts "mate". I know what you mean ;)

crdrost 6y ago

This is the key point that I wish people understood. From an economic standpoint, articles like this one are really just arguing that the supply and demand in several different markets should be lumped together and aggregated. the claim is that these different markets aren't actually selling a different product; so there is something like Marx's labor theory of value going on or something. But it just seems dubious. It's different if you are arguing that they will inevitably merge. But if you're arguing that we should artificially merge them, that doesn't make a terribly large amount of sense to me. Or that we should not merge them but we should just act irrationally in a market to be consistent with our actions in another market, again, that sounds like people being excessively idealistic.

cheph 6y ago
> This is the key point that I wish people understood. From an economic standpoint, articles like this one are really just arguing that the supply and demand in several different markets should be lumped together and aggregated. No, it is not. This article is arguing the opposite. The article is arguing that you should ignore the fact that the labour market changes and still demand that you get market rates for some arbitrary other market which is no longer the market that you are operating in. If this article was arguing we should artificially merge all markets they would not have a problem with getting a pay cut when the market becomes the whole of US instead of SV.

WA 6y ago

This. If I have to support my parents financially and physically, my cost of living are higher in a rural area than living like a student in SF. So what makes cost of living? It’s a BS metric.

JackFr 6y ago
Well your employer cares not a whit what it costs you to live. In aggregate though it is useful as a baseline estimate of how they are going to adjust salaries between locations. Remember, it’s not just software engineers. Receptionists, drivers and food service workers likely make different wages in different locales, and are not typically involved in intense individual HR negotiations.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

lemonspat 6y ago

I really don’t understand your argument. NY and SF cost 4x for just housing from where I live, and the food & taxes are more expensive. Call it cost-of-housing or cost-of-equal-expenses, or whatever but the name doesn’t matter. The costs to the employee are different But I’m a remote employee right now and do want equal pay