6 ms·

I remember seeing some study that showed much less social mobility in Europe compared to the USA. Many families in Europe that were wealthy hundreds of years ag

by wsc981 6y ago

I remember seeing some study that showed much less social mobility in Europe compared to the USA. Many families in Europe that were wealthy hundreds of years ago are still wealthy to this day, whereas in the USA one (used to?) see much more transition of wealth. Perhaps in this sense, Europe is much more unequal than the USA. Bloomberg wrote about this issue: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-23/how-to-stay-rich-in-europe-inherit-money-for-700-years https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-23/how-to-st... As did Famcap: https://www.famcap.com/2016/05/2016-5-17-wealthspike-europe-where-its-all-about-inherited-wealth-family-businesses/ https://www.famcap.com/2016/05/2016-5-17-wealthspike-europe-...

osullivj 6y ago
Yes, there are families in Florence, England and other European countries and cities who have enjoyed unbroken dynastic wealth over several hundreds of years. But this doesn't prove that Europe is more or less equal than the US. The US has only existed for ~2 centuries. In 1870 the US surpassed the UK to become the world's largest economy, and remains so. So there's only been 2 centuries or less for dynastic wealth to form in the US, as opposed to ~10 centuries in Europe.
hogFeast 6y ago
Yep, that is correct...although something of an inevitably given the different historical paths (and isn't true of all countries within Europe either). But what I would add is that downward mobility is just as important as upward mobility: the US is, I think, unique in that rich people can move downwards which doesn't happen in other places. Btw, neither approach is more optimal than the other. There are trade-offs. What some countries in Europe get wrong is that they are trading off innovation which is going to become more important for growth going forward.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  >the US is, I think, unique in that rich people can move downwards which doesn't happen in other places. Which IMHO is very healthy since it creates space for the younger players to move up vs having a reign of feudalistic families owning most vital sectors of the economy for decades or even hundreds of years.
  - lazyasciiart 6y ago
    The entire concept of social mobility being easier in the US is false, and has been for decades. The idea that downward mobility is unique to the US is also distinctly false - not only does it exist in other countries, it is more common in many places than it is in the US. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/01/these-are-the-10-countries-with-the-best-social-mobility/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/01/these-are-the-10-coun... https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/files/Social_Mobility_Europe_final_April_2017.pdf https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/files/Social_Mobility_Europe_final...

by wsc981 6y ago

osullivj 6y ago

Yes, there are families in Florence, England and other European countries and cities who have enjoyed unbroken dynastic wealth over several hundreds of years. But this doesn't prove that Europe is more or less equal than the US. The US has only existed for ~2 centuries. In 1870 the US surpassed the UK to become the world's largest economy, and remains so. So there's only been 2 centuries or less for dynastic wealth to form in the US, as opposed to ~10 centuries in Europe.

hogFeast 6y ago

Yep, that is correct...although something of an inevitably given the different historical paths (and isn't true of all countries within Europe either). But what I would add is that downward mobility is just as important as upward mobility: the US is, I think, unique in that rich people can move downwards which doesn't happen in other places. Btw, neither approach is more optimal than the other. There are trade-offs. What some countries in Europe get wrong is that they are trading off innovation which is going to become more important for growth going forward.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>the US is, I think, unique in that rich people can move downwards which doesn't happen in other places. Which IMHO is very healthy since it creates space for the younger players to move up vs having a reign of feudalistic families owning most vital sectors of the economy for decades or even hundreds of years.
- lazyasciiart 6y ago
  The entire concept of social mobility being easier in the US is false, and has been for decades. The idea that downward mobility is unique to the US is also distinctly false - not only does it exist in other countries, it is more common in many places than it is in the US. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/01/these-are-the-10-countries-with-the-best-social-mobility/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/01/these-are-the-10-coun... https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/files/Social_Mobility_Europe_final_April_2017.pdf https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/files/Social_Mobility_Europe_final...