4 ms·

Yeah, the TL;DR thing really grates on my nerves. Are we so miswired now that we can't take the time out to read 4,500 well-written words on a subject, and inst

Yeah, the TL;DR thing really grates on my nerves. Are we so miswired now that we can't take the time out to read 4,500 well-written words on a subject, and instead need it condensed to a list appropriate for Twitter? Is there really no other value in the entire essay other than the list items themselves?

Groxx 15y ago
Are we so not-interested in other things that we take several other articles' worth in time to read a single one, when a concise summary could get the point across just as well? Why stop at using 4500 words? Why not put it in an hour-long Youtube video, and not provide a description / transcription? Sometimes all you want is the shorter option.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  I have serious doubts about the value of an endless series of ever-shorter summaries in the name of consuming more information.
  - jacques_chester 15y ago
    And indeed some summaries lack the colour, pathos and delight of the original. Here's a summary of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire: * There was a republic. * Then there was an empire. * Christianity emerged. * The empire split up. * The empire declined. More or less factually what you might glean from Gibbon, but it lacks the sheer delight of that fascinating masterpiece of the English language.
    - Eliezer 15y ago
      Thanks! You saved me a lot of time there.
  - rowaway1 15y ago
    tl;dr summaries bad
  - rowaway1 15y ago
    tl;dr summaries bad
jamesbritt 15y ago
Are we so miswired now that we can't take the time out to read 4,500 well-written words on a subject, ... I'd love too, but there's a lot to choose from, so some guidance on what may be worth the time investment is invaluable.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  I hear you, but that way lie dragons. Ultimately, you will be the only person capable of deciding whether a particular thing was worth your time or not, and you can only decide that in hindsight, having experienced it. The finest accumulation of the greatest reviews of a work will not make up for the fact that you might glean some valuable tidbit from it that nobody else noticed. You also have to accept that you simply aren't going to ever be able to know everything about everything that you'd like to; you will have to make choices, pick and choose. Accepting that, would you then rather memorize a pile of summaries and tidbits and factoids, or would you rather take the time to read and consider a complete discourse on a subject? For example: I'm sitting here thinking about my argument and wondering if I'm really just full of shit, but then I suddenly remembered a bit of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman", where Feynman talks about some of his experiences in Brazil, and how the teaching at the time resulted in students that had memorized everything but understood very little. And it strikes me that this relatively recent addiction to summaries is very similar to that kind of Brazilian education.
  - Groxx 15y ago
    An interesting comparison. Largely accurate, I think, but I do want to make a counter-point: reading a summary != memorization The problem with students who only memorize is that they are incapable of creation. They can answer a set of questions, but not use what they know to respond to something new. A summary, in the best cases (far from always achieved, of course), is all that is needed to get a thinking brain from zero to the conclusions the full text would bring you to. Any gaps can be logically deduced and filled through mental effort, ideally more quickly than it could be told. Especially if one already has experience in the area. Memorization, meanwhile, creates gaps, and provides no tools to fill them.
wging 15y ago
Not every summary is necessarily a TL;DR. Even for the most diligent reader, a cogent explanation of what exactly the author believes to be the most important information can help clarify and distill knowledge.
Deestan 15y ago
Depends on what you use the TL;DR for. For me, the TL;DR summary helps me get the gist of the article and then decide whether I should read the whole thing or not. If I just go ahead and read, and after 1200 words, the author promotes inhaling magnet dust or sleeping 4 hours each night as a way to improve intelligence, the entire article is a complete waste of time and I will be annoyed. The summary, as presented here, firmly places the article in my "read when I get home" queue.
- pygy_ 15y ago
  tl;dr summaries often address the 'what', but they neglect the 'how', which is often as useful to decide whether or not to read something.
Jach 15y ago
Go read How to Read a Book. The second level of reading is about skimming, picking up the general point of something, then deciding if it's worth a careful, analytical (and perhaps synoptic) reading. I don't think this article deserves it, so I didn't give it the full time to read everything, and since I've read other stuff in this area before, I think the bullet points really do sum it up.
- pygy_ 15y ago
  The article focuses on the motivations behind these advices and how to apply them in practice. A big part of thevalue of the article comes from this and your bullet list fails to account for that.
- lurker19 15y ago
  Or How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read http://www.amazon.com/x/dp/1596914696 http://www.amazon.com/x/dp/1596914696
rglover 15y ago
I had absolutely zero idea what TL;DR meant until I saw it here and looked it up. I agree with you, this article was extremely well-written and I feel that just summarizing the key points doesn't really help you to understand what the author was trying to convey. It's unfortunate that we've trained ourselves as a society to participate in info-snacking (gorging ourselves on as many tiny bits of info as possible). This is why there's so much short-form content. As opposed to circulating great content like this article (and subsequently discussing it), we go out of our way to publish less-circumstantial lists ad nausea that make us feel like we've done/learned something.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  > ...info-snacking... Wow, this is going to be my favorite new piece of vocabulary for a while. It's perfect.
nvarsj 15y ago
I read the original 4,500 words, and I don't think it adds anything beyond the tl;dr. Most opinion pieces are terrible at being concise.

Groxx 15y ago

Are we so not-interested in other things that we take several other articles' worth in time to read a single one, when a concise summary could get the point across just as well? Why stop at using 4500 words? Why not put it in an hour-long Youtube video, and not provide a description / transcription? Sometimes all you want is the shorter option.

thaumaturgy 15y ago
I have serious doubts about the value of an endless series of ever-shorter summaries in the name of consuming more information.
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  And indeed some summaries lack the colour, pathos and delight of the original. Here's a summary of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire: * There was a republic. * Then there was an empire. * Christianity emerged. * The empire split up. * The empire declined. More or less factually what you might glean from Gibbon, but it lacks the sheer delight of that fascinating masterpiece of the English language.
  - Eliezer 15y ago
    Thanks! You saved me a lot of time there.
- rowaway1 15y ago
  tl;dr summaries bad
- rowaway1 15y ago
  tl;dr summaries bad

jamesbritt 15y ago

Are we so miswired now that we can't take the time out to read 4,500 well-written words on a subject, ... I'd love too, but there's a lot to choose from, so some guidance on what may be worth the time investment is invaluable.

thaumaturgy 15y ago
I hear you, but that way lie dragons. Ultimately, you will be the only person capable of deciding whether a particular thing was worth your time or not, and you can only decide that in hindsight, having experienced it. The finest accumulation of the greatest reviews of a work will not make up for the fact that you might glean some valuable tidbit from it that nobody else noticed. You also have to accept that you simply aren't going to ever be able to know everything about everything that you'd like to; you will have to make choices, pick and choose. Accepting that, would you then rather memorize a pile of summaries and tidbits and factoids, or would you rather take the time to read and consider a complete discourse on a subject? For example: I'm sitting here thinking about my argument and wondering if I'm really just full of shit, but then I suddenly remembered a bit of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman", where Feynman talks about some of his experiences in Brazil, and how the teaching at the time resulted in students that had memorized everything but understood very little. And it strikes me that this relatively recent addiction to summaries is very similar to that kind of Brazilian education.
- Groxx 15y ago
  An interesting comparison. Largely accurate, I think, but I do want to make a counter-point: reading a summary != memorization The problem with students who only memorize is that they are incapable of creation. They can answer a set of questions, but not use what they know to respond to something new. A summary, in the best cases (far from always achieved, of course), is all that is needed to get a thinking brain from zero to the conclusions the full text would bring you to. Any gaps can be logically deduced and filled through mental effort, ideally more quickly than it could be told. Especially if one already has experience in the area. Memorization, meanwhile, creates gaps, and provides no tools to fill them.

wging 15y ago

Not every summary is necessarily a TL;DR. Even for the most diligent reader, a cogent explanation of what exactly the author believes to be the most important information can help clarify and distill knowledge.

Deestan 15y ago

Depends on what you use the TL;DR for. For me, the TL;DR summary helps me get the gist of the article and then decide whether I should read the whole thing or not. If I just go ahead and read, and after 1200 words, the author promotes inhaling magnet dust or sleeping 4 hours each night as a way to improve intelligence, the entire article is a complete waste of time and I will be annoyed. The summary, as presented here, firmly places the article in my "read when I get home" queue.

pygy_ 15y ago
tl;dr summaries often address the 'what', but they neglect the 'how', which is often as useful to decide whether or not to read something.

Jach 15y ago

Go read How to Read a Book. The second level of reading is about skimming, picking up the general point of something, then deciding if it's worth a careful, analytical (and perhaps synoptic) reading. I don't think this article deserves it, so I didn't give it the full time to read everything, and since I've read other stuff in this area before, I think the bullet points really do sum it up.

pygy_ 15y ago
The article focuses on the motivations behind these advices and how to apply them in practice. A big part of thevalue of the article comes from this and your bullet list fails to account for that.
lurker19 15y ago
Or How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read http://www.amazon.com/x/dp/1596914696 http://www.amazon.com/x/dp/1596914696

rglover 15y ago

I had absolutely zero idea what TL;DR meant until I saw it here and looked it up. I agree with you, this article was extremely well-written and I feel that just summarizing the key points doesn't really help you to understand what the author was trying to convey. It's unfortunate that we've trained ourselves as a society to participate in info-snacking (gorging ourselves on as many tiny bits of info as possible). This is why there's so much short-form content. As opposed to circulating great content like this article (and subsequently discussing it), we go out of our way to publish less-circumstantial lists ad nausea that make us feel like we've done/learned something.

thaumaturgy 15y ago
> ...info-snacking... Wow, this is going to be my favorite new piece of vocabulary for a while. It's perfect.

nvarsj 15y ago

I read the original 4,500 words, and I don't think it adds anything beyond the tl;dr. Most opinion pieces are terrible at being concise.