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That was expected from the very beginning. Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying si

That was expected from the very beginning. Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying since we collect, we are free to use as we want (citing again some blah-blah about public benefits). What's surprising is that they disclose it. Perhaps he just wasnt prepared for the question

powerapple 6y ago
You have some data in the hands of any government, and once you have a judge's approval, the data will be obtained by the authority regardless where you are. It makes sense that the data should be stored on your devices only. If a criminal is caught with his phone, the data can still be obtained by the police (the same as phone records for example), and it can still be useful for criminal investigation, and normal citizen don't have to worry about their data. It is actually achievable with Google and Apple's approach. And I think it was a genuine answer. This is a reply to MP, not a random reporter on streets.
- jesterson 6y ago
  I believe you're missing the point. At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? I am sure it was a genuine answer - that's why I was surprised. Usually those things are sugar covered.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? Technically not a fallacy (as there's no logical fault in what they said). Just falling back on a promise to the public.
    - hagibborim 6y ago
      It's not a logical fallacy, but it's still a fallacy.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        You keep using this word "fallacy". I don't think it means what you think it means [1] (a) a deceptive, misleading, or false notion, belief, etc.: That the world is flat was at one time a popular fallacy. (b) a misleading or unsound argument. (c) deceptive, misleading, or false nature; erroneousness. (d) Logic. any of various types of erroneous reasoning that render arguments logically unsound. [1] to paraphrase "The Princess Bride"
        hagibborim 6y ago
        This usage fits definitions a, b, and c. This very definition draws a distinction between a 'fallacy' and a 'logical fallacy'
        coldtea 6y ago
        >This usage fits definitions a, b, and c. No, it doesn't. Government: - "We will use data just for medical purposes" Government (later): - "Guess what, we lied/we recant: we will use them for other state purposes too". There's nothing fallacious in (a), (b) or (c) way about either statement or the whole situation.
        hungryforcodes 6y ago
        It's a brilliant example of doublethink you did there.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Not only that, it's also the counterexample to calling "slippery slope" a fallacy. After all, slippery slope is not a fallacy if the slope is, in fact, slippery.
kasperni 6y ago
> Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying since we collect Some governments... We don't all live in a surveillance state.
- jesterson 6y ago
  While I do agree with the correction - thank you, unfortunately this is applicable to certain extend to any government in developed world. Especially since the whole COVID madness started.
- coldtea 6y ago
  You'd be surprised. Where do you leave that's not a surveillance state?
  - kasperni 6y ago
    Nordic country. And my point was mainly targeted on "will the government use the data for other non-intended purposes". Instead of whether or not my Internet traffic is monitored by some state actor.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >Nordic country Nine Eyes: The Nine Eyes is a different arrangement that consists of the same members of Five Eyes working with Denmark, France, the Netherlands and Norway. Fourteen Eyes: According to a document leaked by Edward Snowden, there is another working agreement amongst 14 nations officially known as SIGINT Seniors Europe, or "SSEUR". These "14 Eyes" consist of the same members of Nine Eyes plus Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain and Sweden. >will the government use the data for other non-intended purposes I wouldn't bet on it. I think that nordic cultures (especially Sweden) have the tendency to think the government does no wrong, has no power plays and special interests, and only ever does what it says it does.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- 6y ago
PikachuEXE 6y ago
Everything is permitted... Without a system that gives strong enough negative feedbacks to this kind of "usage", they will never go away. Lack of negative feedback can be seen as a kind of positive feedback too.

powerapple 6y ago

You have some data in the hands of any government, and once you have a judge's approval, the data will be obtained by the authority regardless where you are. It makes sense that the data should be stored on your devices only. If a criminal is caught with his phone, the data can still be obtained by the police (the same as phone records for example), and it can still be useful for criminal investigation, and normal citizen don't have to worry about their data. It is actually achievable with Google and Apple's approach. And I think it was a genuine answer. This is a reply to MP, not a random reporter on streets.

jesterson 6y ago
I believe you're missing the point. At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? I am sure it was a genuine answer - that's why I was surprised. Usually those things are sugar covered.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >At first, they explain the information is collected solely for medical reasons. Now they say they can use it as they please. Don't you see fallacy here? Technically not a fallacy (as there's no logical fault in what they said). Just falling back on a promise to the public.
  - hagibborim 6y ago
    It's not a logical fallacy, but it's still a fallacy.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      You keep using this word "fallacy". I don't think it means what you think it means [1] (a) a deceptive, misleading, or false notion, belief, etc.: That the world is flat was at one time a popular fallacy. (b) a misleading or unsound argument. (c) deceptive, misleading, or false nature; erroneousness. (d) Logic. any of various types of erroneous reasoning that render arguments logically unsound. [1] to paraphrase "The Princess Bride"
      - hagibborim 6y ago
        This usage fits definitions a, b, and c. This very definition draws a distinction between a 'fallacy' and a 'logical fallacy'
        coldtea 6y ago
        >This usage fits definitions a, b, and c. No, it doesn't. Government: - "We will use data just for medical purposes" Government (later): - "Guess what, we lied/we recant: we will use them for other state purposes too". There's nothing fallacious in (a), (b) or (c) way about either statement or the whole situation.
        hungryforcodes 6y ago
        It's a brilliant example of doublethink you did there.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Not only that, it's also the counterexample to calling "slippery slope" a fallacy. After all, slippery slope is not a fallacy if the slope is, in fact, slippery.

kasperni 6y ago

> Government will collect as much data as possible citing medical reasons and then use the data as it pleases saying since we collect Some governments... We don't all live in a surveillance state.

jesterson 6y ago
While I do agree with the correction - thank you, unfortunately this is applicable to certain extend to any government in developed world. Especially since the whole COVID madness started.
coldtea 6y ago
You'd be surprised. Where do you leave that's not a surveillance state?
- kasperni 6y ago
  Nordic country. And my point was mainly targeted on "will the government use the data for other non-intended purposes". Instead of whether or not my Internet traffic is monitored by some state actor.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Nordic country Nine Eyes: The Nine Eyes is a different arrangement that consists of the same members of Five Eyes working with Denmark, France, the Netherlands and Norway. Fourteen Eyes: According to a document leaked by Edward Snowden, there is another working agreement amongst 14 nations officially known as SIGINT Seniors Europe, or "SSEUR". These "14 Eyes" consist of the same members of Nine Eyes plus Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain and Sweden. >will the government use the data for other non-intended purposes I wouldn't bet on it. I think that nordic cultures (especially Sweden) have the tendency to think the government does no wrong, has no power plays and special interests, and only ever does what it says it does.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
6y ago

PikachuEXE 6y ago

Everything is permitted... Without a system that gives strong enough negative feedbacks to this kind of "usage", they will never go away. Lack of negative feedback can be seen as a kind of positive feedback too.