4 ms·

> that True Scottish capitalism that miraculously doesn't immediately devolve into crony capitalism. Prevent the regulatory agencies from being captured by tho

> that True Scottish capitalism that miraculously doesn't immediately devolve into crony capitalism. Prevent the regulatory agencies from being captured by those corporations they were ostensibly intended to regulate.

jessaustin 6y ago
Capitalism doesn't require regulators or regulation. It doesn't even require the rule of law. It only requires that workers and consumers be prevented from free negotiation of the terms of production and commerce. Laws and regulations are often used this way, but capricious despotism does the job nearly as well.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  I'm not sure I follow, it would seem that the opposite of this is true: > Capitalism [...] only requires that workers and consumers be prevented from free negotiation of the terms of production and commerce. Isn't capitalism what arises when workers and consumers are permitted to freely negotiate terms?
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    There's another party to consider. (hint... it's in the name!) In truly fluid and uncertain situations, capital takes a beating. Humans can adapt or even move; those factories that burned down won't rebuild themselves. After the Revolutionary War, but before the USA Constitution was imposed on the populace, was such a situation. Free farmers opposed capital both violently and via monetary policy (through pro-inflation and relaxed debt-enforcement laws passed by states in the grip of actual representative government). Madison and the rest of the conspirators were far more troubled by the latter excess of freedom; they certainly didn't invite any poor tenant farmers to Philadelphia. There they succeeded in making USA safe for capital. "Federalism" was a lie from the beginning; no state is allowed to inconvenience big business. In the 1860s a rather destructive war was fought over that issue (among others). Ever since then, whenever and wherever circumstances have favored the positions of workers more than capitalists can accept, the USA Army (or sometimes the Pinkertons!) have stepped in to violently modify negotiating positions. In the post-WWII period they were unable to do that for several decades, and USA enjoyed its greatest prosperity. In the late 1960s they figured out a way to make a war hurt the population more than it hurt capital (and also they killed half a dozen of the people who were warning us about it), and USA has gone downhill ever since. Year after year, they introduce discrete "shocks" that devastate the poor and middle class, while always keeping the resources of the state ready to support the interests of capital. The "mistakes" of capitalism that we observe in every decade are in fact its most vital features. When the spoils of progress accrue to capital, they don't accrue to humans. Even if we imagine they didn't "implement it properly" last time, there's no reason to expect they'll do it "properly" next time either.
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      > "obvious troll" lol, nothing is obvious anymore. you got me.

jessaustin 6y ago

Capitalism doesn't require regulators or regulation. It doesn't even require the rule of law. It only requires that workers and consumers be prevented from free negotiation of the terms of production and commerce. Laws and regulations are often used this way, but capricious despotism does the job nearly as well.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
I'm not sure I follow, it would seem that the opposite of this is true: > Capitalism [...] only requires that workers and consumers be prevented from free negotiation of the terms of production and commerce. Isn't capitalism what arises when workers and consumers are permitted to freely negotiate terms?
- jessaustin 6y ago
  There's another party to consider. (hint... it's in the name!) In truly fluid and uncertain situations, capital takes a beating. Humans can adapt or even move; those factories that burned down won't rebuild themselves. After the Revolutionary War, but before the USA Constitution was imposed on the populace, was such a situation. Free farmers opposed capital both violently and via monetary policy (through pro-inflation and relaxed debt-enforcement laws passed by states in the grip of actual representative government). Madison and the rest of the conspirators were far more troubled by the latter excess of freedom; they certainly didn't invite any poor tenant farmers to Philadelphia. There they succeeded in making USA safe for capital. "Federalism" was a lie from the beginning; no state is allowed to inconvenience big business. In the 1860s a rather destructive war was fought over that issue (among others). Ever since then, whenever and wherever circumstances have favored the positions of workers more than capitalists can accept, the USA Army (or sometimes the Pinkertons!) have stepped in to violently modify negotiating positions. In the post-WWII period they were unable to do that for several decades, and USA enjoyed its greatest prosperity. In the late 1960s they figured out a way to make a war hurt the population more than it hurt capital (and also they killed half a dozen of the people who were warning us about it), and USA has gone downhill ever since. Year after year, they introduce discrete "shocks" that devastate the poor and middle class, while always keeping the resources of the state ready to support the interests of capital. The "mistakes" of capitalism that we observe in every decade are in fact its most vital features. When the spoils of progress accrue to capital, they don't accrue to humans. Even if we imagine they didn't "implement it properly" last time, there's no reason to expect they'll do it "properly" next time either.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    > "obvious troll" lol, nothing is obvious anymore. you got me.