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I do not understand on what grounds the Chinese company that serves Chinese users is being sued in New York. The search results are censored because Chinese law

by ygreek 15y ago

I do not understand on what grounds the Chinese company that serves Chinese users is being sued in New York. The search results are censored because Chinese law requires doing so. What does it have to do with the US?

doyoulikeworms 15y ago
Furthermore, what does this have to do with the first amendment?
anigbrowl 15y ago
I do not understand your confusion since those questions are clearly answered in the article. - Chinese language searches on Baidu made from within the US are censored - This is an infringement of the civil rights of the [edit: US-based] Chinese writers whose works are being sought out by US-based readers of Chinese - Title VII forbids such abridgments of a person's civil rights The bottom line is not that Baidu can't censor its results in accordance with the policies of the Chinese government, but that it can not conduct business within the US at the same time. I'm not sure that the plaintiffs can win their case, but that's not really the point - even if they lose, it still shines a bright light on Baidu's censorious practices.
- semuelf 15y ago
  So they are basically asking Baidu to un-cencor US-based searches? this is somewhat reasonable. Just like Google works in each country according to the local rules. Of course, Baidu can argue that it is not the only search engine in the market, so censorship does not hold. It is like suing the New Your Times to feature right-leaning articles too.
- ygreek 15y ago
  I am not a layer, so I do not really understand what does the phrase "conducting business in the US" means. Does creating a website amounts to the "business in the US", since by the nature of the internet, websites in any country would normally be accessible in the US? Or does one need to have customers in the US? Or is it something else? So I am wondering, how could they stop conducting business in the US? Should they just block the access from the US based IP? If they would do so, would that really be better then censorship?
  - anigbrowl 15y ago
    Essentially yes, they should be blocking US traffic, or at least not operating any servers in the US and not serving ads to anyone in the US. That would mean sticking to www.baidu.cn instead of registering www.baidu.com (with MarkMonitor.com, a US-based domain registration provider). Would this be 'better' than censorship? A matter of opinion - I don't think it would be all that better and I am guessing you feel the same. But if you're using a US-style .com address, registering with a US domain registry, and serving ads to US visitors, then you're doing business in the US for legal purposes, and you become subject to US laws about how you do business - especially the laws that say you can't discriminate against people or infringe upon their civil rights. The concept in the US is that if you want to enjoy the freedoms and legal protections that go with being American, then you have to offer your services to others on the same basis that you expect to be served. You can't turn people away or give them inferior service just because you disapprove of them in some way such as not liking their gender, ethnicity, or national origin. So if you're offering Chinese-language web search, in the US, and you're filtering the results in a way that limits the rights of US citizens/residents, then you're effectively discriminating against US residents who originally come from China. You can stop discriminating, or you can get out of the US market, but in the meantime you're liable to get sued. As I said, I really don't know if this is a viable legal argument or not, but winning the case is secondary to keeping the issue in the news.

by ygreek 15y ago

doyoulikeworms 15y ago

Furthermore, what does this have to do with the first amendment?

anigbrowl 15y ago

I do not understand your confusion since those questions are clearly answered in the article. - Chinese language searches on Baidu made from within the US are censored - This is an infringement of the civil rights of the [edit: US-based] Chinese writers whose works are being sought out by US-based readers of Chinese - Title VII forbids such abridgments of a person's civil rights The bottom line is not that Baidu can't censor its results in accordance with the policies of the Chinese government, but that it can not conduct business within the US at the same time. I'm not sure that the plaintiffs can win their case, but that's not really the point - even if they lose, it still shines a bright light on Baidu's censorious practices.

semuelf 15y ago
So they are basically asking Baidu to un-cencor US-based searches? this is somewhat reasonable. Just like Google works in each country according to the local rules. Of course, Baidu can argue that it is not the only search engine in the market, so censorship does not hold. It is like suing the New Your Times to feature right-leaning articles too.
ygreek 15y ago
I am not a layer, so I do not really understand what does the phrase "conducting business in the US" means. Does creating a website amounts to the "business in the US", since by the nature of the internet, websites in any country would normally be accessible in the US? Or does one need to have customers in the US? Or is it something else? So I am wondering, how could they stop conducting business in the US? Should they just block the access from the US based IP? If they would do so, would that really be better then censorship?
- anigbrowl 15y ago
  Essentially yes, they should be blocking US traffic, or at least not operating any servers in the US and not serving ads to anyone in the US. That would mean sticking to www.baidu.cn instead of registering www.baidu.com (with MarkMonitor.com, a US-based domain registration provider). Would this be 'better' than censorship? A matter of opinion - I don't think it would be all that better and I am guessing you feel the same. But if you're using a US-style .com address, registering with a US domain registry, and serving ads to US visitors, then you're doing business in the US for legal purposes, and you become subject to US laws about how you do business - especially the laws that say you can't discriminate against people or infringe upon their civil rights. The concept in the US is that if you want to enjoy the freedoms and legal protections that go with being American, then you have to offer your services to others on the same basis that you expect to be served. You can't turn people away or give them inferior service just because you disapprove of them in some way such as not liking their gender, ethnicity, or national origin. So if you're offering Chinese-language web search, in the US, and you're filtering the results in a way that limits the rights of US citizens/residents, then you're effectively discriminating against US residents who originally come from China. You can stop discriminating, or you can get out of the US market, but in the meantime you're liable to get sued. As I said, I really don't know if this is a viable legal argument or not, but winning the case is secondary to keeping the issue in the news.