6 ms·

Distribute the Vaccines Now

69 points by jseliger 6y ago

OnlyRepliesToBS 6y ago
You do not know what is in the vaccine.
- matt_kantor 6y ago
  > The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine contains the following ingredients: messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA), lipids (SM-102, polyethylene glycol [PEG] 2000 dimyristoyl glycerol [DMG], cholesterol, and 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine [DSPC]), tromethamine, tromethamine hydrochloride, acetic acid, sodium acetate, and sucrose. https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download > The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine includes the following ingredients: mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl) bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose. https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mchusma 6y ago
Good series of posts. I'll add briefly to point (1) and (2). (1) vaccine manufacturing was very much blocked by approval. For example, instead of having 30M doses of Astrazeneca in December, because of approval delays they delivered 5M instead. Companies also cannot produce too much of vaccines that might spoil. Letting them distribute even a nominal amount (say 1M/mo since June) would have learned us many valuable lessons by now and allowed many more vaccines to be manufactured. (2) they discussed long term side effects on the approval calls. There has only been 1 side effect after 6 weeks ever recorded in history. It was a long time ago with a live virus polio vaccine on an immunocompromised person. Given the many billions of vaccines given in history, the odds of a long term side effect are not literally impossible, but as close as we get in medicine.
- artursapek 6y ago
  A single instance of a long term side effect in all of recorded history? You actually believe that?
  - aaron695 6y ago
    Rather than saying they are wrong, why not link to one of the records? The Varicella vaccine causes shingles years later - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150811103555.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150811103555.h...
    - Noumenon72 6y ago
      My reading of that abstract is that vaccinating an entire society leads to more shingles in that society because having chickenpox circulating in a population exposes people to the virus repeatedly, which boosts their immunity to shingles. A single person getting the shot would not have an increased risk of getting shingles.
      - aaron695 6y ago
        Sorry, you are correct. That abstract was the wrong one. "Since the varicella vaccine is a live virus vaccine, the virus can become dormant and reactivate, rarely causing serious side effects. Individual case reports of varicella vaccine virus reactivation leading to vaccine-associated herpes zoster ophthalmicus and encephalitis, and meningitis have been published." https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/varicella-vaccine.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/varicella-vaccine... https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055/s-0036-1597691.pdf https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055... "We present a case of a previously healthy twice-VZV vaccinated 14-year-old girl who presented with rash and headache who was found to have herpes zoster complicated by meningitis. Cerebrospinal fluid polymerase chain reaction confirmed zoster infection secondary to reactivation of vaccine-strain VZV"
    - simonh 6y ago
      No it doesn't. People not getting Chicken Pox leads to an increased prevalence of Shingles. It is not a side effect of the vaccine, it's a side effect of reducing the prevalence of certain viruses.
29athrowaway 6y ago
Distributing all the doses now doesn't make sense. - The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine requires a booster shot after 21 days. - The Moderna vaccine requires a booster shot 28 days later. If the vaccine manufacturer recommends a booster shot then that's what should be done. Then not everyone: 1) ...is at a high risk 2) ...puts others at a high risk Therefore prioritization makes sense. The success of Israel against COVID is not only due to vaccination campaign (which of course, helps) but also their ability to adapt to the current situation and mobilize against the virus. We've had enough of people fighting sanitary authorities for months. Let them do their job. Unpublishing this blog post would be a better thing to do right now.
- scrollaway 6y ago
  The booster shot gets you to the highest immunity but a single shot still gets you increased immunity. Several countries in europe are considering single-shot strategies, as was discussed on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25579393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25579393 And yeah not everyone is high risk but getting a shot into every health care worker, teacher, every person who interacts with lots of people etc will greatly reduce the impact of the virus, which includes reducing risk to high risk people.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    Israel is a country with 9 million people, with a highly disciplined population that can be effectively mobilized to do practically anything. That's part of the reason they're being successful against COVID-19, rather than just vaccines alone. Vaccines help but vaccination alone will not get you to where they are now. If you want to do a country-wide campaign to encourage social distancing, masks, washing hands, etc... it's much easier to do there. For example, see how Israel erradicated Malaria and see what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1chsYafMqE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1chsYafMqE
    - scrollaway 6y ago
      Did you mean to reply to someone else?
iridium_core 6y ago
Governments are not ready to allow the economy and population to return to 'normal'. They want to finish their bailouts/pork barreling, and to continue the destruction of the economy and society so that it can be fully recreated along ideological lines. They want to ready systems like limiting travel and cinema visits only for the vaccinated. How else can you explain things like the new executive order and $1million penalty in New York from Governor Cuomo for distributing the vaccine to non-prioritised people?
- simonh 6y ago
  Maybe those people are being prioritised for valid reasons? If so, maybe it's important that the prioritisation happens.

69 points by jseliger 6y ago

OnlyRepliesToBS 6y ago

You do not know what is in the vaccine.

matt_kantor 6y ago
> The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine contains the following ingredients: messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA), lipids (SM-102, polyethylene glycol [PEG] 2000 dimyristoyl glycerol [DMG], cholesterol, and 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine [DSPC]), tromethamine, tromethamine hydrochloride, acetic acid, sodium acetate, and sucrose. https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download > The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine includes the following ingredients: mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl) bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose. https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mchusma 6y ago

Good series of posts. I'll add briefly to point (1) and (2). (1) vaccine manufacturing was very much blocked by approval. For example, instead of having 30M doses of Astrazeneca in December, because of approval delays they delivered 5M instead. Companies also cannot produce too much of vaccines that might spoil. Letting them distribute even a nominal amount (say 1M/mo since June) would have learned us many valuable lessons by now and allowed many more vaccines to be manufactured. (2) they discussed long term side effects on the approval calls. There has only been 1 side effect after 6 weeks ever recorded in history. It was a long time ago with a live virus polio vaccine on an immunocompromised person. Given the many billions of vaccines given in history, the odds of a long term side effect are not literally impossible, but as close as we get in medicine.

artursapek 6y ago
A single instance of a long term side effect in all of recorded history? You actually believe that?
- aaron695 6y ago
  Rather than saying they are wrong, why not link to one of the records? The Varicella vaccine causes shingles years later - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150811103555.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150811103555.h...
  - Noumenon72 6y ago
    My reading of that abstract is that vaccinating an entire society leads to more shingles in that society because having chickenpox circulating in a population exposes people to the virus repeatedly, which boosts their immunity to shingles. A single person getting the shot would not have an increased risk of getting shingles.
    - aaron695 6y ago
      Sorry, you are correct. That abstract was the wrong one. "Since the varicella vaccine is a live virus vaccine, the virus can become dormant and reactivate, rarely causing serious side effects. Individual case reports of varicella vaccine virus reactivation leading to vaccine-associated herpes zoster ophthalmicus and encephalitis, and meningitis have been published." https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/varicella-vaccine.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/varicella-vaccine... https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055/s-0036-1597691.pdf https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055... "We present a case of a previously healthy twice-VZV vaccinated 14-year-old girl who presented with rash and headache who was found to have herpes zoster complicated by meningitis. Cerebrospinal fluid polymerase chain reaction confirmed zoster infection secondary to reactivation of vaccine-strain VZV"
  - simonh 6y ago
    No it doesn't. People not getting Chicken Pox leads to an increased prevalence of Shingles. It is not a side effect of the vaccine, it's a side effect of reducing the prevalence of certain viruses.

29athrowaway 6y ago

Distributing all the doses now doesn't make sense. - The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine requires a booster shot after 21 days. - The Moderna vaccine requires a booster shot 28 days later. If the vaccine manufacturer recommends a booster shot then that's what should be done. Then not everyone: 1) ...is at a high risk 2) ...puts others at a high risk Therefore prioritization makes sense. The success of Israel against COVID is not only due to vaccination campaign (which of course, helps) but also their ability to adapt to the current situation and mobilize against the virus. We've had enough of people fighting sanitary authorities for months. Let them do their job. Unpublishing this blog post would be a better thing to do right now.

scrollaway 6y ago
The booster shot gets you to the highest immunity but a single shot still gets you increased immunity. Several countries in europe are considering single-shot strategies, as was discussed on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25579393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25579393 And yeah not everyone is high risk but getting a shot into every health care worker, teacher, every person who interacts with lots of people etc will greatly reduce the impact of the virus, which includes reducing risk to high risk people.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Israel is a country with 9 million people, with a highly disciplined population that can be effectively mobilized to do practically anything. That's part of the reason they're being successful against COVID-19, rather than just vaccines alone. Vaccines help but vaccination alone will not get you to where they are now. If you want to do a country-wide campaign to encourage social distancing, masks, washing hands, etc... it's much easier to do there. For example, see how Israel erradicated Malaria and see what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1chsYafMqE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1chsYafMqE
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    Did you mean to reply to someone else?

iridium_core 6y ago

Governments are not ready to allow the economy and population to return to 'normal'. They want to finish their bailouts/pork barreling, and to continue the destruction of the economy and society so that it can be fully recreated along ideological lines. They want to ready systems like limiting travel and cinema visits only for the vaccinated. How else can you explain things like the new executive order and $1million penalty in New York from Governor Cuomo for distributing the vaccine to non-prioritised people?

simonh 6y ago
Maybe those people are being prioritised for valid reasons? If so, maybe it's important that the prioritisation happens.