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Texture caching in modern renders tends to be on demand and paged so it is very unlikely the full texture set is ever pulled from the filers. Over texturing li

Texture caching in modern renders tends to be on demand and paged so it is very unlikely the full texture set is ever pulled from the filers. Over texturing like this can be a good decision depending on the production. Asset creation often starts a long time before shots or cameras are locked down. If you don’t know how an asset is to be used it makes sense to texture all of it upfront as if it will be full screen, 4K. Taking an asset off final to ‘Upres’ it for a can be a pain in the ass and more costly than just detailing it up in the first place. In isolation it’s a insane amount of detail and given perfect production planning it is normally not needed, but until directors lock down the scripts and shots it can be the simplest option.

CyberDildonics 6y ago
> Texture caching in modern renders tends to be on demand and paged so it is very unlikely the full texture set is ever pulled from the filers. This was easier to rely on in the days before ray tracing, when texture filtering was consistent because everything was from the camera. Ray differentials from incoherent rays aren't quite as forgiving. > If you don’t know how an asset is to be used it makes sense to texture all of it upfront as if it will be full screen, 4K. 4k textures for large parts of the asset in the UV layout can be an acceptable amount of overkill. That's not the same as putting 65,000 4k textures on something because each little part is given its own 4k texture. I know that you know this, but I'm not sure why you would conflate those two things. > Taking an asset off final to ‘Upres’ it for a can be a pain in the ass and more costly than just detailing it up in the first place It is very rare that specific textures need to be redone like that and it is not a big deal. 650GB of textures for one asset drags everything from iterations to final renders to disk usage to disk activity to network usage down for every shot in a completely unnecessary way. There isn't a fine line between these things, there is a giant gap between that much excessive texture resolution and needing to upres some piece because it gets close to the camera. > Asset creation often starts a long time before shots or cameras are locked down. This is actually fairly rare. > In isolation it’s a insane amount of detail and given perfect production planning it is normally not needed, but until directors lock down the scripts and shots it can be the simplest option. That's rarely how the time line fits together. It's irrelevant though, because there is no world where 65,000 4k textures on a single asset makes sense. It's multiple orders of magnitude out of bounds of reality. I am glad that you have that insane amount of scalability as a focus since you are making tools that people rely on heavily, and I wish way more people on the tools end thought like this. Still, it is about 1000x what would set off red flags in my mind. I apologize on behalf of whoever told you that was necessary, because they need to learn how to work within reasonable resources (which is not difficult given modern computers), no matter what project or organization they are attached to.
- forelle2 6y ago
  Mari was designed in production at Weta, based off the lessons learned from, well, everything that Weta does. Take for example, a large hero asset like King Kong. Kong look development started many months before a script was locked down. Kong is 60ft tall, our leading lady is 5’2”. We think we need shots where she’ll be standing in Kong’s hands, feet, be lifted up to his face, nose etc. So we need fingers prints that will stand up at 4K renders, tear ducts, pores on the inside on the nose, etc etc but we don’t know. All of which will have to match shot plates in detail. We could address each of these as the shots turn up and tell the director (who owns the company) he needs to wait a few days for his new shot, or you can break Kong into 500 patches and create a texture for each of the diffuse, 3 spec, 3 subsurface, 4 bump, dirt, blood, dust, scratch, fur, flow etc etc inputs to our shaders. Let’s says we have 500 UDIM patches for Kong so we can sit our leading lady on the finger tips, and 20 channels to drive our shaders and effects systems. When working the artist uses 6 paint layers for each channel ( 6 is a massive underestimate for most interesting texture work). So we have 500 patches * 20 channels * 6 layers which gives us 60k images. Not all of these will need be at 4K however. For Kong replace any hero asset where shots will be more placed “in and on” the asset rather than “at”. Heli carriers, oil rigs, elven great halls, space ships, giant robots.... The line between asset and environment is blurred at that point and maybe think “set” rather than “asset”
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    500 separate 4k textures patches for a character covered in fur is excessively wasteful. Things like 3 4k subsurface maps on 500 patches maps on a black skinned creature that is mostly covered by fur is grossly unnecessary no matter who tells you it's needed. We both know that stuff isn't showing up on film and that the excess becomes a CYA case of the emperor's new clothes where no one wants to be the one to say it's ridiculous. > When working the artist uses 6 paint layers for each channel ( 6 is a massive underestimate for most interesting texture work). This is intermediary and not what is being talked about.
    - aprdm 6y ago
      Your opinion on something doesn’t mean much when confronted with real world experiences from the biggest studios.

CyberDildonics 6y ago

> Texture caching in modern renders tends to be on demand and paged so it is very unlikely the full texture set is ever pulled from the filers. This was easier to rely on in the days before ray tracing, when texture filtering was consistent because everything was from the camera. Ray differentials from incoherent rays aren't quite as forgiving. > If you don’t know how an asset is to be used it makes sense to texture all of it upfront as if it will be full screen, 4K. 4k textures for large parts of the asset in the UV layout can be an acceptable amount of overkill. That's not the same as putting 65,000 4k textures on something because each little part is given its own 4k texture. I know that you know this, but I'm not sure why you would conflate those two things. > Taking an asset off final to ‘Upres’ it for a can be a pain in the ass and more costly than just detailing it up in the first place It is very rare that specific textures need to be redone like that and it is not a big deal. 650GB of textures for one asset drags everything from iterations to final renders to disk usage to disk activity to network usage down for every shot in a completely unnecessary way. There isn't a fine line between these things, there is a giant gap between that much excessive texture resolution and needing to upres some piece because it gets close to the camera. > Asset creation often starts a long time before shots or cameras are locked down. This is actually fairly rare. > In isolation it’s a insane amount of detail and given perfect production planning it is normally not needed, but until directors lock down the scripts and shots it can be the simplest option. That's rarely how the time line fits together. It's irrelevant though, because there is no world where 65,000 4k textures on a single asset makes sense. It's multiple orders of magnitude out of bounds of reality. I am glad that you have that insane amount of scalability as a focus since you are making tools that people rely on heavily, and I wish way more people on the tools end thought like this. Still, it is about 1000x what would set off red flags in my mind. I apologize on behalf of whoever told you that was necessary, because they need to learn how to work within reasonable resources (which is not difficult given modern computers), no matter what project or organization they are attached to.

forelle2 6y ago
Mari was designed in production at Weta, based off the lessons learned from, well, everything that Weta does. Take for example, a large hero asset like King Kong. Kong look development started many months before a script was locked down. Kong is 60ft tall, our leading lady is 5’2”. We think we need shots where she’ll be standing in Kong’s hands, feet, be lifted up to his face, nose etc. So we need fingers prints that will stand up at 4K renders, tear ducts, pores on the inside on the nose, etc etc but we don’t know. All of which will have to match shot plates in detail. We could address each of these as the shots turn up and tell the director (who owns the company) he needs to wait a few days for his new shot, or you can break Kong into 500 patches and create a texture for each of the diffuse, 3 spec, 3 subsurface, 4 bump, dirt, blood, dust, scratch, fur, flow etc etc inputs to our shaders. Let’s says we have 500 UDIM patches for Kong so we can sit our leading lady on the finger tips, and 20 channels to drive our shaders and effects systems. When working the artist uses 6 paint layers for each channel ( 6 is a massive underestimate for most interesting texture work). So we have 500 patches * 20 channels * 6 layers which gives us 60k images. Not all of these will need be at 4K however. For Kong replace any hero asset where shots will be more placed “in and on” the asset rather than “at”. Heli carriers, oil rigs, elven great halls, space ships, giant robots.... The line between asset and environment is blurred at that point and maybe think “set” rather than “asset”
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  500 separate 4k textures patches for a character covered in fur is excessively wasteful. Things like 3 4k subsurface maps on 500 patches maps on a black skinned creature that is mostly covered by fur is grossly unnecessary no matter who tells you it's needed. We both know that stuff isn't showing up on film and that the excess becomes a CYA case of the emperor's new clothes where no one wants to be the one to say it's ridiculous. > When working the artist uses 6 paint layers for each channel ( 6 is a massive underestimate for most interesting texture work). This is intermediary and not what is being talked about.
  - aprdm 6y ago
    Your opinion on something doesn’t mean much when confronted with real world experiences from the biggest studios.