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I am always baffled how sad this extreme focus into productivity makes me. If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all y

I am always baffled how sad this extreme focus into productivity makes me. If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". Sadly I believe the world managed to make us feel guilty when we're not doing something that makes someone else rich (majority of jobs). I'm a pessimist so I'd probably get very sad at some real data telling me how many hours I have wasted making someone else money.

renewiltord 6y ago
Sometimes I get the impression 99% of HN comments are pretty much: I like X. I don't know why anyone else likes Y. All right, yeah, desire vectors are different for different people, homie.
maria_weber23 6y ago
Tracking your time spent has nothing to do with productivity. It is simply data you may chose to act on or not. If this person was out for optimizing income, tye6 would not have studied a PhD in the first place, because that's 6 years wasted, plus tuition on top of it. You can your tracking to optimize for whatever variable you want to optimize. You could realize that you work too much and aim for working less. You could realize that you do social media too much and aim to do less of it, etc. It's up to you. As for not making money. The world is, sadly highly biased towards rich people. If you are poor and happy (which is totally possible) you are still highly at risk that this state won't last. Without money, you are f*ed in this world. It's just the way it is. If you are dependent on income you are dependent on A LOT of things. The best you can generally do for your happiness is become income independent as fast as possible, which usually means to earn as much as possible as early as possible and then live from investments while focusing on everything that's not work.
dtran 6y ago
I think "being productive" vs. "time well spent" and "doing things that really matter" is a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be this way. I know that's a statement from a position of privilege— not every has a job where they can feel like they are in a flow state while working, but do you have any side projects or hobbies where you feel both productive and feel like it's time well spent? Coming to this pretty late, but I've been fascinated with the concept of flow recently, which researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihaly described as: “The best moments in our lives are not the passive, receptive, relaxing times . . . The best moments usually occur if a person’s body or mind is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile” Again, not everyone is in a position to do this, but I think we should de-emphasize number of hours spent in "work mode" albeit inefficiently or without great focus or working on things that aren't super important and more time seeking deep focus and then time completely off to relax, recharge and let ideas background process/percolate.
- oblio 6y ago
  Your viewpoint still dismisses one of the best categories of "time wasting"/"things that really matter": time spent socializing with friends and family. There have been a few studies that were pointing out people in Southern Italy live very long and happy lives (I think happiness was self-reported), despite living in relative poverty compared to developed countries. Sun + healthy diets + lots and lots of intense social interactions with family and close friends.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Personally I consider time with friends and family productive time and most definitely time well spent, but surely you have noticed that even these moments can stretch out into unproductivity - maybe some members of the family or friend group want to go home and spend their time on their own things, so a little planning is useful even for family/friends/relaxation. Productive usage of my time means I am not doing simple things the hard way, that I manage my attention, and that I spend time on things that I care about, not that I stop caring about my family.
    - oblio 6y ago
      That's funny of you to say. Extending my example from above, American dining habits are: you stay in the restaurant for about as much time as what you need to eat/drink, then you go away (maybe gently nudged by staff to get out if you stop ordering something after 1 hour or so). Italian dining habits are: you go to dinner and you stay there until everyone has discussed about everything they wanted to discuss, no matter how long that takes. I imagine for someone from the Italian culture your perspective would seem completely alien. And regarding family members or friend that want to leave, surely everyone is mature enough to just get up and go when they have to. Why do you need to manage that for them?
      - emteycz 6y ago
        Regarding my family/friends, I was talking about managing myself, my own time, not them - in this particular case I meant that I could predict when I can be home to do my own things, for example. My perspective never disallowed me from staying at the table for hours until everyone was saturated with friendly banter. I spent many months in Italy, Croatia, Spain, Georgia, Poland and elsewhere doing just that, and I consider it time spent productively - relaxation and socialization is important to me.
danesparza 6y ago
Read the article. The article has a completely different tone than what you are assuming from the headline. ~~~ 4 points per hour for the most productive activities (focused work towards uni & self-improvement and exercising) 3 points for reading books 2 points for reading blogs, listening to podcasts, lower intensity work etc 0 points for things that are important but I do them anyway (socialising, sleep etc) -4 points for procrastination ~~~~ No mention of making someone else money. But a mention of being a procrastinator with life.
- Draiken 6y ago
  I did read it :) My point is that the majority of "productive" things we do are geared towards our jobs. And the majority of jobs enrich the people at the top at the expense of your expertise and time invested. YMMV. Not sure why so many people assumed I had a bad view on the article or the OP. I think what was done was fascinating, but it made me sad.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    > My point is that the majority of "productive" things we do are geared towards our jobs. There's a confounder here that's relatively specific to some types of jobs / industries (like IT): the same skills and knowledge that is "geared towards our jobs" is also used outside work. In our industry, a lot of people - including myself - are hobbyists. They enjoy the same stuff they also do for a living. In this setting, your personal pursuit for knowledge and fulfillment may look from outside as indistinguishable from your job.
  - danesparza 6y ago
    Again -- I feel like I'm reading a different article. You're totally allowed to feel however you feel about the article. "focused work towards uni & self-improvement and exercising" doesn't mean just learning a new language or getting experience with a new tool or framework. To me it means making time for mental health, emotional health (destressing), physical health, meditating. Perhaps I'm reading it completely wrong.
nequals1 6y ago
I probably used productivity too carelessly in my article - I meant it more as 'doing things that make me happy/help me develop as a person' as opposed to 'doing things that feel nice and easy now but I'd rather do them less'. I consider hobbies, reading books, going on walks and things like that as productive and tried to reduce time I spent mindlessly scrolling social media. I'm also doing my PhD so by trying to increase my at-work productivity I'm trying to make sure that I don't waste too much of taxpayer's money. But I agree that optimising productivity too much could be anxiety-inducing and I was trying to be mindful of that while looking at my data and deciding what to change in my life based on it.
deleted 6y ago
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smegma2 6y ago
My understanding of what you said is that most productive things we do are for someone else's benefit, therefore we shouldn't have an interest in tracking our productivity. But why not argue the following instead: Most productive things we do are for someone else's benefit, so let's try to fill our time with more things that our productive to ourselves. Would you agree with this take?
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
When you're not dying next month going to work to pay your bills "really matters".
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  Quite, “living every day as though it be one's last” seems like an idiotic maxim to me. If I knew today would be my last I would obviously splurge and forget responsibilities I have to make my next day.
ArtWomb 6y ago
>>> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? Called to mind an Old Zen Koan. Before Enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment: chop wood, carry water ;) If lifecasting were automated, it would form a tremendous data set. The historical antecedents are legion: Vannevar Bush's Memex. Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion Chronograph. Gordon Bell's MyLifeBits. Yes, even YC's own Justin.tv. Simple daily plain text often works best for me. Re-visiting old entries is gold. Like inviting your younger self over for a cup of tea ;)
TeMPOraL 6y ago
> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". Nah. I'd ensure that my family is going to be well-cared for, that all affairs are in order... and then proceed to blow the remaining time on videogames and whatever strikes my fancy. With an actual dead line of one year, there's no point in starting anything that "really matters" to me. Now if I knew for certain I'll die in exactly 10 years, I'd optimize the shit out of my life. I'd be a god of productivity. Or at least I'd try. In reality, knowing that my life is likely to actually end in somewhen between 30 to 50 years is already giving me this motivation. Because the problem here isn't the focus on productivity, but what you're trying to be productive about. Most of us live lives full of things we wouldn't want to do if we could afford it. It makes sense to try and optimize them to minimum - to make room for the stuff that "really matters".
asimpletune 6y ago
Yeah, I mean obsessive life hacking is definitely annoying, but honestly this guy is pretty cool. Like, he actually did this. That in and of itself is pretty amazing. How many people do you know say stuff without really truly knowing what they’re talking about. So can we just stop and appreciate for one sec this guy literally did this thing, and that’s actually amazing.
ubertoop 6y ago
What else would someone do with their time if not be productive? I hear you say... travel, see the world, experience other cultures, be with family, and all that jazz. None of that pays the bills. I understand your sentiment but don't really see how I could do what "really matters" right unless I gave up on a western life entirely. Maybe if I lived in a van and did some contract based coding I could spend most of my time seeing the world, but then I would give up so many other wonderful things like a wife, possibly kids, family close by, etc. Ultimately we live just one life. I want to feel like I accomplished something and made my mark as trivially small as it may be compared to some. I want to hang my hat at the end of the day and feel like I had control over myself. In other words, I want to master good living and discipline. Of course I want to see family, and friends, and all that. But there are many hours in the day, and why not fill them with your best effort? There will be plenty of time when I am old where I will want to do rest, leisure, etc.
deepGem 6y ago
I am quite baffled too. Finding out how little focused work I do, even on the days that feel productive, was one of the biggest surprises of analysing my data. It turns out that a typical working day (9-17) would usually only give around 5-6 hours of actual work, I'd be more than happy to get 5-6 hours of productivity in a day. I think even 2-3 hours of good focused work is really good for me. PhD education is mostly real hard work so I wouldn't equate it to like reading emails etc. So yeah, this is super solid 5-6 hours of focused work solving some deep technical problems. Every day. This is no joke and nothing to feel bad about.
kaitai 6y ago
Unlike many folks here, I agree with you (in that a lot of focus on productivity makes me sad). For a point of contrast, though, every now & then I'll log my activities for a week -- just a week -- as a way of auditing my commitments. Am I spending a lot of time on things I don't value? Am I enjoying what I'm doing? At this stage in my career/life, I actually want to put a limit on my employed hours. Side projects, family life, exercise, hedonism are the things I want to balance with that paid work -- I've done the burnout thing and am simply not interested in doing it again. These semi-regular audits are in some sense reassuring, in fact, and allow me to appreciate all the possibilities I have. "Ah, if I shift this to there, I can do this cool thing. Ah, I do spend five hours per week on leisurely and delicious morning meals. Life is decent!" And sometimes they find tasks or commitments I realize I want to eliminate, or point out that if I simply took ten minutes on Thursday to talk through with my spouse what I want to do on Saturday, then we'd have tickets to the museum/ingredients to make a roast duck/whatever -- the things I want to be doing on a weekend.
- mssundaram 6y ago
  I really like the idea of intermittently logging a week, thank you for sharing. Your example of taking a short time to plan ahead with your spouse is a perfect motivation for me to try this, as it's an area I could really improve
- __boos 6y ago
  I have to suggest two books here: - If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Happy? - The Right Life: Human Individuality and Its Role in Our Development, Health and Happiness Both books are focused on reshaping our effort and expliciting our real needs to make us happier.
8bitsrule 6y ago
I often feel the same sadness when thinking of how so many get pulled into losing their most vital years. Decades ago I spent a day travelling with a company salesman. That afternoon we spent an hour non-productively talking. In a candid moment he confessed that, out on the road, he'd missed most of his children growing up. He encouraged me not to make that mistake. Somewhat later in another place, a college professor, in a non-productive moment, related a similar story and advice. These revealing moments changed my life. Recently I saw the video "50 years off-grid" about a couple that moved onto 240 Cali redwood acres in 1968 and took back their lives. Eventually they grew and sold Xmas trees for support, and raised two children. Not for everyone ... but point being that there are options, depending on what desires we nurture and sacrifice for. Such chains have been woven and worn as far back in history as we can see. And still, true freedom can be a terrifying prospect. Which explains some modern leadership choices.
- dv35z 6y ago
  Just wanted to say - this is excellent writing!
person_of_color 6y ago
The most productive people ever focused on productivity.
ekianjo 6y ago
> extreme focus into productivity makes me. I see it rather sad when some people do nothing of their lives instead of investing a little bit every day in doing something meaningful. By no means I am advocating for 100% productivity at all times - but striving for a little less idle time is beneficial.
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
  Most people with a full time job should be striving for a little more idle time. During the 2 weeks holidays I just finished I found I deeply enjoyed just sitting outside and watching bugs crawl over plants. It wasn't productive, insightful, educational or whatever but it was enjoyable and I felt better after doing it.
WalterBright 6y ago
> I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". My focus is on things that would be expected to pay off before my life runs out. The less life I have left, the more I do things for short term gain rather than long term. For example, at age 18 investing in college for 4 years is an excellent investment. Doing it in your 60s doesn't make a whole lot of practical sense.
- tartoran 6y ago
  It depends. When I went to college I remember this lady around 70 years old who was a student. I forget what major she was in or other details but remember talking to her then. I don’t think she was getting something practical out of it but maybe something personal. I remember her saying something like college was something she always wanted to do and now she had a chance to. She was very bright and quick witted and it surprised me she didn’t have a college degree. So in this case this is what mattered to her. I was amazed at the time but found out she was not a singular case at the time, some people do return to school late in their life
wowowowow 6y ago
What a cynical comment. The author did some introspective work here and you feel the need to berate her organization because you can imagine the scenario that she would die in one year? Yeah, if I had cancer maybe I would stop working too. I feel like you didn't even read the post, since the work the author describes includes things like language learning; the fact that you take from this post the goal of making money for other people seems like projection. No where does the post mention even having a job. This is a particular irk I have with HN commenters. They read the title and then respond to what they think the post would be.
purplecats 6y ago
> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? Yes, even more so. The way I define productivity is by doing things that return the largest ROI for me, both short term and long term.
blunte 6y ago
Making someone else money is not the problem. Doing so without getting any satisfaction beyond just earning a paycheck - that's when it gets depressing. Or worse... doing so on a project which you know is doomed, and thus costs your team's time and your company's money.
rimliu 6y ago
"Good morning," said the little prince. "Good morning," said the merchant. This was a merchant who sold pills that had been invented to quench thirst. You need only swallow one pill a week, and you would feel no need for anything to drink. "Why are you selling those?" asked the little prince. "Because they save a tremendous amount of time," said the merchant. "Computations have been made by experts. With these pills, you save fifty-three minutes in every week." "And what do I do with those fifty-three minutes?" "Anything you like..." "As for me," said the little prince to himself, "if I had fifty-three minutes to spend as I liked, I should walk at my leisure toward a spring of fresh water." ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince
tikej 6y ago
But on the other hand, if you knew you have a year to live would you save for retirement? Life is always a balance between now and the future
ivm 6y ago
Those aren't mutually exclusive. For me being "productive" means not wasting my limited time on something that doesn't really matter. "Productivity" does not equal "making as much money as possible at every moment of your life".
zelphirkalt 6y ago
Perhaps I am feeling similar to what you describe. What I try to do is contributing to society instead of to businesses, like I do on the job. Businesses are part of society of course, but there are more direct ways to contribute to society. Personally I like to make everything free software, which I create in my free time, as well as donating to good causes. If everyone did that, I think we would be a lot further. However, there are so many people on this planet, even if only "a few" of us each do a little bit of work, which results in something, that cannot be taken away from society any longer, it will improve things. And let businesses use things as well, as long as they play according to the rules. I don't mind anyone making money off of things, as long as people's freedom and society in general isn't hurt.
gumby 6y ago
> I'm a pessimist so I'd probably get very sad at some real data telling me how many hours I have wasted making someone else money. Wouldn't that be useful? Considering your own example: might that not send you one a path to change the fraction of time you do something you don't like. And what's wrong with "making someone else money" if it also provides you something you want (presumably in this case, also money)? If you were earning money "making someone else a meal" would that be equally bad?
wodenokoto 6y ago
If I discovered I was going to die in a year, I would burn through all my savings. As humans we need a balance between living in the now and preparing for the future. In college, one girl in my class died tragically, and we all discussed the meaning of spending hours cramming for exams. Those hours were definitely wasted on her, but I am still happy that I passed my exams.
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
I agree with you if productivity is work, but I also consider my hobbies productive. Netflix and Reddit and HN and the inane parts of the news I consider unproductive. And yet I spend probably at least 12 hours per week on those. It’s a scrolling addiction and (god how hypocritical is it for me to take the time to type this here) it’s good to avoid.
- Draiken 6y ago
  And that's exactly what I'm questioning. Why are Reddit and HN labeled as non-productive? Is it because it doesn't do anything to us or because we're trained to only label "skills" as productive? I learned more through HN than I did with many books. Reddit improved my day through stupid memes that made me laugh more times than I can remember. Yet when I'm browsing those sites, I feel guilty. Even while writing this very comment. That's what saddens me.
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
    I don't think all of what I get on HN or reddit falls in either category. I get some good stuff there and here, and find fun stuff too. But I do notice booting up one or the other reflexively. That's the part I don't like. If I'm being intentional about it, it's okay, but on autopilot I feel guilt. What really did it for me was blocking them on coldturkey for a day. I'd very much recommend trying out blocking whatever your habit sites are for a day. It's eye opening. I found myself doing "cmd+t news" or "cmd+t redd" idly simply out of habit. Likewise when I deleted the reddit app on my phone. When it's not coming from the executive function part of my brain, or even worse, when it's counter to my executive function decisions, it's not productive. Basically, if it's a decision I look back on fondly, that's the criteria for okay. Some of the time on these aggregators meets that criteria, but not enough of it :\
chrisfosterelli 6y ago
From TFA: > I knew I was spending quite a lot of it on social media, but I wasn't sure how much exactly. I also knew I was working quite a lot and wanted to quantify exactly how much (spoiler alert: not that much). I hoped that keeping track of what I do would help me to identify chunks of time that were being wasted and to turn them into quality time. Tracking time doesn't inherently have to be to optimize for "making someone else rich"; she specifically did this with the goal of spending more time on things that "really matter".
- Draiken 6y ago
  But I never said tracking time inherently does that. I agree with you. It's a great way to put things in perspective. It's just my personal experience that the majority of time we label as "productive" is in fact productivity for the sake of someone else profiting on top of it. I have nothing against the OP or the article.
  - dasil003 6y ago
    Most people work for someone else, the productivity is a for a paycheck. But secondarily you are also learning skills which can either propel you up a career ladder or give you the basics to start your own business. Sour grapes over how much profit shareholders are getting does not serve ones own interests—either start your own business or maximize your own salary/billable rate in the labor marketplace, but don’t cut off your nose to spite your face by focusing on how much profit-sharing you are not getting in one particular situation.
    - toiletfuneral 6y ago
      This is a myth and you should be ashamed for believing it. Please go spend time with the rich, you’ll see they’re dumb as shit and the laziest people on earth. But yeah, keep kissing their ass, maybe they’ll let you in the club
  - mcjkrw 6y ago
    Sometimes it's just more pleasant to focus on the work, even if it's boring and we are doing it for someone else. We have to spend the time anyway, we could spend it by being alert, or distracted and drifting off. Being alert feels good and there is some satisfaction from the work being done. Being distracted is mentally draining. Also, it's not only the stake holder that is profiting from the work, it's society as a whole - we all depend on this work.
dnautics 6y ago
Did you read the article? "I work less than I thought I did and that's ok"
- Draiken 6y ago
  I did. But it also mentions procrastination as a -4 point and sleep as a 0. And my sentiment is also from reading some of the comments here. So many people obsessed with productivity. Some have a clear reason to do so, but I fear many do it because of outside pressures, or never even thought about it.
  - throwaway2245 6y ago
    The scores are relative to each other. I certainly prefer to sleep than to procrastinate, so this matches up with your example. And, I certainly prefer to do almost any task than procrastinate. Procrastination (by which I understand: wasted effort thinking about being productive without actually doing anything) makes me feel grim. I would have valued that time more doing almost anything else. If sleeping helps me to avoid procrastination, then this scoring system still encourages sufficient sleep to do that.
  - hobofan 6y ago
    I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that scoring. Sleeping is basically neutral (maybe it should give 0.5 points instead or something small that doesn't dilute the rest of the scoring system). I'd also score procrastination negatively even if you are not obsessed with productivity. Procrastination can easily cause negative feelings (and for me is probably one of the biggest sources for them) and can be viewed as a separate thing as dedicated downtime.
    - Draiken 6y ago
      Oh, neither do I. What made me sad is that I'd likely have a very similar scoring if I did this myself. For example, I wish I didn't score sleep as a waste of time, when it's likely more important than many of the things regularly deemed important by society.
sunir 6y ago
I think you have a very narrow understanding of what "productive" means. You can produce or make progress towards anything that you value. Making other people money is just one avenue. If you had a year to live, you would definitely want to be productive. There's a lot that needs to get done to wrap up your one single life well, so that your time on earth wasn't lost. Just getting your will and testament done, talking to all your loved ones, getting your affairs in order for any dependents, tying up any loose ends so they aren't inherited, cleaning up your house for the estate. If you know older people, you'll see them doing these kinds of activities in their later years. That's still being productive. You're still making progress.
- CarelessExpert 6y ago
  > If you had a year to live, you would definitely want to be productive. No, I'd want to be happy. It's the uniquely American Calvinist view that conflates these things.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Yeah, agreed. I don't think I know any person that's written their will, for example.
    - maya24 6y ago
      It's irresponsible for anyone with kids to have not done this.
      - vntok 6y ago
        Completely depends on where you live. Many countries have sane defaults for simple cases.
        lemming 6y ago
        No country can have a sane default for “who should look after my kids if both parents die suddenly?”. That will always be a very personal decision that depends very much on your family situation.
gibrown 6y ago
> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". But if you are going to try and do things that "really matter" don't you want to be productive at them? I've seen a number of folks with ALS who have done amazing things with the time they had left, and I am sure they focused on their productivity in doing them. This also isn't a hypothetical for me. I have a damaged spinal cord and have spent amazing amounts of time tracking data to try and improve my body and my life. Not the same as facing death since I am trying to optimize my time to get back to a point where my body is stronger and in less pain so I can spend more time with my kids and also do the other things I want. It is a very tough balance.
- Draiken 6y ago
  > But if you are going to try and do things that "really matter" don't you want to be productive at them? I'd definitely try to, hehe. For me it's more about what we categorize as productive than the experiment itself. The experiment is a great way to gather data. But the categorization made me really think about what people, in general, categorize as "productive". Maybe sleeping should be way more important than many job related things, but by default we assume sleeping is just a necessity, many times sacrificing it in favor of the others.
  - gibrown 6y ago
    Ya personally I consider sleep to be very very productive. I just spent two months doing cognitive behavioral therapy to improve it (went from ave 5.75 hrs to 6.7 hrs per night). Massive benefit.
duke_core 6y ago
I can't remember his name, there was a youtuber named Ali Abdal (I think?) whose videos are focused around productivity and they give me the same feeling that you're talking about in your comment. When you're talking about to 'productively' watch tv shows while try to get some work done in the background thats going a bit too far
- Insanity 6y ago
  Yes it's that youtuber (Ali Abdal). He had this video about productively watching TV by watching the netflix shows sped up 2x or something like that. Similar for listening to audio books etc. Personally quite dislike those kind of ideas as well, takes the joy out of recreation.
javajosh 6y ago
I can be pessimistic, too, but I had a different reaction. The OP's post is about measuring a life according to behaviors (activities) and with that data the OP is thinking out loud about how he wants to change things. This is an artifact that describes an analytical mind observing and addressing the daily animal/mind hybrid that actually lives in and experiences the world. I tend to agree that "productivity" is an unhealthy obsession linked to vain status chasing, and (among many circles) a vaguely sinister implication. It is too often used as a euphamistic criticism by employers who inevitably want more out of the workers. Produce or die is the default law of the capitalist jungle, so the "productivity number" is the number that a system would use to fire you. But the OP's situation is quite different. There is no misalignment between "the boss" (his current analytical mind) and "the worker" (the daily mind/body cyborg beast). The boss really wants the best for the worker; the worker really wants to do his best for the boss. (And to me it seems like the boss has his priorities straight, and is doing right by his worker with this analysis and recommendations).
polote 6y ago
Well, the answer is easy. We are all different. We all have one only life, some people prefer to spend it watching football, some being productive, some helping others, and some ... Of course you will also find people who are not happy at the life they have, and trying to live the life of others. But you will also find people being happy doing things that make other people sad.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  Well, the answer is easy. We are all different It’s so easy it gets skipped over in almost every thread like this, it seems, where someone goes off on some expedition of personal development and chooses to write about it to share with others where inevitably someone comes along to pontificate why anyone would even bother. There’s not always going to be some neat, logical nor highfalutin reason for an individual making a choice about documenting, recording and analyzing parts of their life. And that’s fine. Promise.
mbeex 6y ago
Another issue here is an extremely narrowed definition of productivity. It has cog-like traits, Fordian belt work comes to mind. Yes, in this context you can become less productive for one reason or another. But all these micro-optimizations will also affect the mind in the long run in a much more profound way. More than anything its higher forms - even of productivity - especially these connected with creativity. You cannot fight this with a clock watch the same way the vast majority of people cannot lose weight by simply dieting. For this, you need positive incentives. Not to be misunderstood, sometimes you have simply to grit your teeth.
nitrogen 6y ago
I think if you were going to die in a year you would stop doing everything with a payoff more than a few months in the future. It's a mistake to think that what "really matters" is whatever pays off now instead of later. When you have longer to live, it makes sense to work now to get more of what "really matters" five, ten, and twenty years down the line.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  It's not about payoffs. I really challenge anyone to say with a straight face that they'd say on their deathbed "I wish I would have done more spreadsheets on the minutae of my life."
onion2k 6y ago
If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? No. But if I discovered I was going to die in 30 years time, and I wanted to make sure my house was paid for, I'd done the things I want to do, and there were savings in the bank to make sure my partner was safe, then I absolutely would. Most of us are closer to that position than being on the verge of imminent death.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Yea, you have some larger goals, Everyone does. Are you going to track goals every 15 minutes? I doubt it.
reaperducer 6y ago
I'm with you. If it took one minute to log each of the previous 14, I'd rather have 24 hours of my life back. It's the same with social media. Once I realized that spending two hours a day on social media meant I was giving up 30 days of my life each year for... what? So someone in SV can buy a second boat, or a third house? I limit my social media to under 15 minutes a day now (including HN.) If the social ad tech companies want more than that, they can pay me.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  The only thing you can think of doing once you were to ween yourself from your vices (like OP and social media) is work? Even worse, making someone else rich? You obviously don’t think that, so I don’t get why you and grandparent are projecting that onto OP. I want to minimize my wasted time like mindless Redditing so that I can maximize my time spent doing things that fulfill me. It’s just a great tragedy that it’s so much easier to waste time in unfulfilling ways like spending a day in a heroin nod than it is to do the things that maximize my life.

renewiltord 6y ago

Sometimes I get the impression 99% of HN comments are pretty much: I like X. I don't know why anyone else likes Y. All right, yeah, desire vectors are different for different people, homie.

maria_weber23 6y ago

Tracking your time spent has nothing to do with productivity. It is simply data you may chose to act on or not. If this person was out for optimizing income, tye6 would not have studied a PhD in the first place, because that's 6 years wasted, plus tuition on top of it. You can your tracking to optimize for whatever variable you want to optimize. You could realize that you work too much and aim for working less. You could realize that you do social media too much and aim to do less of it, etc. It's up to you. As for not making money. The world is, sadly highly biased towards rich people. If you are poor and happy (which is totally possible) you are still highly at risk that this state won't last. Without money, you are f*ed in this world. It's just the way it is. If you are dependent on income you are dependent on A LOT of things. The best you can generally do for your happiness is become income independent as fast as possible, which usually means to earn as much as possible as early as possible and then live from investments while focusing on everything that's not work.

dtran 6y ago

I think "being productive" vs. "time well spent" and "doing things that really matter" is a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be this way. I know that's a statement from a position of privilege— not every has a job where they can feel like they are in a flow state while working, but do you have any side projects or hobbies where you feel both productive and feel like it's time well spent? Coming to this pretty late, but I've been fascinated with the concept of flow recently, which researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihaly described as: “The best moments in our lives are not the passive, receptive, relaxing times . . . The best moments usually occur if a person’s body or mind is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile” Again, not everyone is in a position to do this, but I think we should de-emphasize number of hours spent in "work mode" albeit inefficiently or without great focus or working on things that aren't super important and more time seeking deep focus and then time completely off to relax, recharge and let ideas background process/percolate.

oblio 6y ago
Your viewpoint still dismisses one of the best categories of "time wasting"/"things that really matter": time spent socializing with friends and family. There have been a few studies that were pointing out people in Southern Italy live very long and happy lives (I think happiness was self-reported), despite living in relative poverty compared to developed countries. Sun + healthy diets + lots and lots of intense social interactions with family and close friends.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Personally I consider time with friends and family productive time and most definitely time well spent, but surely you have noticed that even these moments can stretch out into unproductivity - maybe some members of the family or friend group want to go home and spend their time on their own things, so a little planning is useful even for family/friends/relaxation. Productive usage of my time means I am not doing simple things the hard way, that I manage my attention, and that I spend time on things that I care about, not that I stop caring about my family.
  - oblio 6y ago
    That's funny of you to say. Extending my example from above, American dining habits are: you stay in the restaurant for about as much time as what you need to eat/drink, then you go away (maybe gently nudged by staff to get out if you stop ordering something after 1 hour or so). Italian dining habits are: you go to dinner and you stay there until everyone has discussed about everything they wanted to discuss, no matter how long that takes. I imagine for someone from the Italian culture your perspective would seem completely alien. And regarding family members or friend that want to leave, surely everyone is mature enough to just get up and go when they have to. Why do you need to manage that for them?
    - emteycz 6y ago
      Regarding my family/friends, I was talking about managing myself, my own time, not them - in this particular case I meant that I could predict when I can be home to do my own things, for example. My perspective never disallowed me from staying at the table for hours until everyone was saturated with friendly banter. I spent many months in Italy, Croatia, Spain, Georgia, Poland and elsewhere doing just that, and I consider it time spent productively - relaxation and socialization is important to me.

danesparza 6y ago

Read the article. The article has a completely different tone than what you are assuming from the headline. ~~~ 4 points per hour for the most productive activities (focused work towards uni & self-improvement and exercising) 3 points for reading books 2 points for reading blogs, listening to podcasts, lower intensity work etc 0 points for things that are important but I do them anyway (socialising, sleep etc) -4 points for procrastination ~~~~ No mention of making someone else money. But a mention of being a procrastinator with life.

Draiken 6y ago
I did read it :) My point is that the majority of "productive" things we do are geared towards our jobs. And the majority of jobs enrich the people at the top at the expense of your expertise and time invested. YMMV. Not sure why so many people assumed I had a bad view on the article or the OP. I think what was done was fascinating, but it made me sad.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  > My point is that the majority of "productive" things we do are geared towards our jobs. There's a confounder here that's relatively specific to some types of jobs / industries (like IT): the same skills and knowledge that is "geared towards our jobs" is also used outside work. In our industry, a lot of people - including myself - are hobbyists. They enjoy the same stuff they also do for a living. In this setting, your personal pursuit for knowledge and fulfillment may look from outside as indistinguishable from your job.
- danesparza 6y ago
  Again -- I feel like I'm reading a different article. You're totally allowed to feel however you feel about the article. "focused work towards uni & self-improvement and exercising" doesn't mean just learning a new language or getting experience with a new tool or framework. To me it means making time for mental health, emotional health (destressing), physical health, meditating. Perhaps I'm reading it completely wrong.

nequals1 6y ago

I probably used productivity too carelessly in my article - I meant it more as 'doing things that make me happy/help me develop as a person' as opposed to 'doing things that feel nice and easy now but I'd rather do them less'. I consider hobbies, reading books, going on walks and things like that as productive and tried to reduce time I spent mindlessly scrolling social media. I'm also doing my PhD so by trying to increase my at-work productivity I'm trying to make sure that I don't waste too much of taxpayer's money. But I agree that optimising productivity too much could be anxiety-inducing and I was trying to be mindful of that while looking at my data and deciding what to change in my life based on it.

deleted 6y ago

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smegma2 6y ago

My understanding of what you said is that most productive things we do are for someone else's benefit, therefore we shouldn't have an interest in tracking our productivity. But why not argue the following instead: Most productive things we do are for someone else's benefit, so let's try to fill our time with more things that our productive to ourselves. Would you agree with this take?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

When you're not dying next month going to work to pay your bills "really matters".

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Quite, “living every day as though it be one's last” seems like an idiotic maxim to me. If I knew today would be my last I would obviously splurge and forget responsibilities I have to make my next day.

ArtWomb 6y ago

>>> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? Called to mind an Old Zen Koan. Before Enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment: chop wood, carry water ;) If lifecasting were automated, it would form a tremendous data set. The historical antecedents are legion: Vannevar Bush's Memex. Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion Chronograph. Gordon Bell's MyLifeBits. Yes, even YC's own Justin.tv. Simple daily plain text often works best for me. Re-visiting old entries is gold. Like inviting your younger self over for a cup of tea ;)

TeMPOraL 6y ago

> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". Nah. I'd ensure that my family is going to be well-cared for, that all affairs are in order... and then proceed to blow the remaining time on videogames and whatever strikes my fancy. With an actual dead line of one year, there's no point in starting anything that "really matters" to me. Now if I knew for certain I'll die in exactly 10 years, I'd optimize the shit out of my life. I'd be a god of productivity. Or at least I'd try. In reality, knowing that my life is likely to actually end in somewhen between 30 to 50 years is already giving me this motivation. Because the problem here isn't the focus on productivity, but what you're trying to be productive about. Most of us live lives full of things we wouldn't want to do if we could afford it. It makes sense to try and optimize them to minimum - to make room for the stuff that "really matters".

asimpletune 6y ago

Yeah, I mean obsessive life hacking is definitely annoying, but honestly this guy is pretty cool. Like, he actually did this. That in and of itself is pretty amazing. How many people do you know say stuff without really truly knowing what they’re talking about. So can we just stop and appreciate for one sec this guy literally did this thing, and that’s actually amazing.

ubertoop 6y ago

What else would someone do with their time if not be productive? I hear you say... travel, see the world, experience other cultures, be with family, and all that jazz. None of that pays the bills. I understand your sentiment but don't really see how I could do what "really matters" right unless I gave up on a western life entirely. Maybe if I lived in a van and did some contract based coding I could spend most of my time seeing the world, but then I would give up so many other wonderful things like a wife, possibly kids, family close by, etc. Ultimately we live just one life. I want to feel like I accomplished something and made my mark as trivially small as it may be compared to some. I want to hang my hat at the end of the day and feel like I had control over myself. In other words, I want to master good living and discipline. Of course I want to see family, and friends, and all that. But there are many hours in the day, and why not fill them with your best effort? There will be plenty of time when I am old where I will want to do rest, leisure, etc.

deepGem 6y ago

I am quite baffled too. Finding out how little focused work I do, even on the days that feel productive, was one of the biggest surprises of analysing my data. It turns out that a typical working day (9-17) would usually only give around 5-6 hours of actual work, I'd be more than happy to get 5-6 hours of productivity in a day. I think even 2-3 hours of good focused work is really good for me. PhD education is mostly real hard work so I wouldn't equate it to like reading emails etc. So yeah, this is super solid 5-6 hours of focused work solving some deep technical problems. Every day. This is no joke and nothing to feel bad about.

kaitai 6y ago

Unlike many folks here, I agree with you (in that a lot of focus on productivity makes me sad). For a point of contrast, though, every now & then I'll log my activities for a week -- just a week -- as a way of auditing my commitments. Am I spending a lot of time on things I don't value? Am I enjoying what I'm doing? At this stage in my career/life, I actually want to put a limit on my employed hours. Side projects, family life, exercise, hedonism are the things I want to balance with that paid work -- I've done the burnout thing and am simply not interested in doing it again. These semi-regular audits are in some sense reassuring, in fact, and allow me to appreciate all the possibilities I have. "Ah, if I shift this to there, I can do this cool thing. Ah, I do spend five hours per week on leisurely and delicious morning meals. Life is decent!" And sometimes they find tasks or commitments I realize I want to eliminate, or point out that if I simply took ten minutes on Thursday to talk through with my spouse what I want to do on Saturday, then we'd have tickets to the museum/ingredients to make a roast duck/whatever -- the things I want to be doing on a weekend.

mssundaram 6y ago
I really like the idea of intermittently logging a week, thank you for sharing. Your example of taking a short time to plan ahead with your spouse is a perfect motivation for me to try this, as it's an area I could really improve
__boos 6y ago
I have to suggest two books here: - If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Happy? - The Right Life: Human Individuality and Its Role in Our Development, Health and Happiness Both books are focused on reshaping our effort and expliciting our real needs to make us happier.

8bitsrule 6y ago

I often feel the same sadness when thinking of how so many get pulled into losing their most vital years. Decades ago I spent a day travelling with a company salesman. That afternoon we spent an hour non-productively talking. In a candid moment he confessed that, out on the road, he'd missed most of his children growing up. He encouraged me not to make that mistake. Somewhat later in another place, a college professor, in a non-productive moment, related a similar story and advice. These revealing moments changed my life. Recently I saw the video "50 years off-grid" about a couple that moved onto 240 Cali redwood acres in 1968 and took back their lives. Eventually they grew and sold Xmas trees for support, and raised two children. Not for everyone ... but point being that there are options, depending on what desires we nurture and sacrifice for. Such chains have been woven and worn as far back in history as we can see. And still, true freedom can be a terrifying prospect. Which explains some modern leadership choices.

dv35z 6y ago
Just wanted to say - this is excellent writing!

person_of_color 6y ago

The most productive people ever focused on productivity.

ekianjo 6y ago

> extreme focus into productivity makes me. I see it rather sad when some people do nothing of their lives instead of investing a little bit every day in doing something meaningful. By no means I am advocating for 100% productivity at all times - but striving for a little less idle time is beneficial.

SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
Most people with a full time job should be striving for a little more idle time. During the 2 weeks holidays I just finished I found I deeply enjoyed just sitting outside and watching bugs crawl over plants. It wasn't productive, insightful, educational or whatever but it was enjoyable and I felt better after doing it.

WalterBright 6y ago

> I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". My focus is on things that would be expected to pay off before my life runs out. The less life I have left, the more I do things for short term gain rather than long term. For example, at age 18 investing in college for 4 years is an excellent investment. Doing it in your 60s doesn't make a whole lot of practical sense.

tartoran 6y ago
It depends. When I went to college I remember this lady around 70 years old who was a student. I forget what major she was in or other details but remember talking to her then. I don’t think she was getting something practical out of it but maybe something personal. I remember her saying something like college was something she always wanted to do and now she had a chance to. She was very bright and quick witted and it surprised me she didn’t have a college degree. So in this case this is what mattered to her. I was amazed at the time but found out she was not a singular case at the time, some people do return to school late in their life

wowowowow 6y ago

What a cynical comment. The author did some introspective work here and you feel the need to berate her organization because you can imagine the scenario that she would die in one year? Yeah, if I had cancer maybe I would stop working too. I feel like you didn't even read the post, since the work the author describes includes things like language learning; the fact that you take from this post the goal of making money for other people seems like projection. No where does the post mention even having a job. This is a particular irk I have with HN commenters. They read the title and then respond to what they think the post would be.

purplecats 6y ago

> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? Yes, even more so. The way I define productivity is by doing things that return the largest ROI for me, both short term and long term.

blunte 6y ago

Making someone else money is not the problem. Doing so without getting any satisfaction beyond just earning a paycheck - that's when it gets depressing. Or worse... doing so on a project which you know is doomed, and thus costs your team's time and your company's money.

rimliu 6y ago

"Good morning," said the little prince. "Good morning," said the merchant. This was a merchant who sold pills that had been invented to quench thirst. You need only swallow one pill a week, and you would feel no need for anything to drink. "Why are you selling those?" asked the little prince. "Because they save a tremendous amount of time," said the merchant. "Computations have been made by experts. With these pills, you save fifty-three minutes in every week." "And what do I do with those fifty-three minutes?" "Anything you like..." "As for me," said the little prince to himself, "if I had fifty-three minutes to spend as I liked, I should walk at my leisure toward a spring of fresh water." ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince

tikej 6y ago

But on the other hand, if you knew you have a year to live would you save for retirement? Life is always a balance between now and the future

ivm 6y ago

Those aren't mutually exclusive. For me being "productive" means not wasting my limited time on something that doesn't really matter. "Productivity" does not equal "making as much money as possible at every moment of your life".

zelphirkalt 6y ago

Perhaps I am feeling similar to what you describe. What I try to do is contributing to society instead of to businesses, like I do on the job. Businesses are part of society of course, but there are more direct ways to contribute to society. Personally I like to make everything free software, which I create in my free time, as well as donating to good causes. If everyone did that, I think we would be a lot further. However, there are so many people on this planet, even if only "a few" of us each do a little bit of work, which results in something, that cannot be taken away from society any longer, it will improve things. And let businesses use things as well, as long as they play according to the rules. I don't mind anyone making money off of things, as long as people's freedom and society in general isn't hurt.

gumby 6y ago

> I'm a pessimist so I'd probably get very sad at some real data telling me how many hours I have wasted making someone else money. Wouldn't that be useful? Considering your own example: might that not send you one a path to change the fraction of time you do something you don't like. And what's wrong with "making someone else money" if it also provides you something you want (presumably in this case, also money)? If you were earning money "making someone else a meal" would that be equally bad?

wodenokoto 6y ago

If I discovered I was going to die in a year, I would burn through all my savings. As humans we need a balance between living in the now and preparing for the future. In college, one girl in my class died tragically, and we all discussed the meaning of spending hours cramming for exams. Those hours were definitely wasted on her, but I am still happy that I passed my exams.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

I agree with you if productivity is work, but I also consider my hobbies productive. Netflix and Reddit and HN and the inane parts of the news I consider unproductive. And yet I spend probably at least 12 hours per week on those. It’s a scrolling addiction and (god how hypocritical is it for me to take the time to type this here) it’s good to avoid.

Draiken 6y ago
And that's exactly what I'm questioning. Why are Reddit and HN labeled as non-productive? Is it because it doesn't do anything to us or because we're trained to only label "skills" as productive? I learned more through HN than I did with many books. Reddit improved my day through stupid memes that made me laugh more times than I can remember. Yet when I'm browsing those sites, I feel guilty. Even while writing this very comment. That's what saddens me.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
  I don't think all of what I get on HN or reddit falls in either category. I get some good stuff there and here, and find fun stuff too. But I do notice booting up one or the other reflexively. That's the part I don't like. If I'm being intentional about it, it's okay, but on autopilot I feel guilt. What really did it for me was blocking them on coldturkey for a day. I'd very much recommend trying out blocking whatever your habit sites are for a day. It's eye opening. I found myself doing "cmd+t news" or "cmd+t redd" idly simply out of habit. Likewise when I deleted the reddit app on my phone. When it's not coming from the executive function part of my brain, or even worse, when it's counter to my executive function decisions, it's not productive. Basically, if it's a decision I look back on fondly, that's the criteria for okay. Some of the time on these aggregators meets that criteria, but not enough of it :\

chrisfosterelli 6y ago

From TFA: > I knew I was spending quite a lot of it on social media, but I wasn't sure how much exactly. I also knew I was working quite a lot and wanted to quantify exactly how much (spoiler alert: not that much). I hoped that keeping track of what I do would help me to identify chunks of time that were being wasted and to turn them into quality time. Tracking time doesn't inherently have to be to optimize for "making someone else rich"; she specifically did this with the goal of spending more time on things that "really matter".

Draiken 6y ago
But I never said tracking time inherently does that. I agree with you. It's a great way to put things in perspective. It's just my personal experience that the majority of time we label as "productive" is in fact productivity for the sake of someone else profiting on top of it. I have nothing against the OP or the article.
- dasil003 6y ago
  Most people work for someone else, the productivity is a for a paycheck. But secondarily you are also learning skills which can either propel you up a career ladder or give you the basics to start your own business. Sour grapes over how much profit shareholders are getting does not serve ones own interests—either start your own business or maximize your own salary/billable rate in the labor marketplace, but don’t cut off your nose to spite your face by focusing on how much profit-sharing you are not getting in one particular situation.
  - toiletfuneral 6y ago
    This is a myth and you should be ashamed for believing it. Please go spend time with the rich, you’ll see they’re dumb as shit and the laziest people on earth. But yeah, keep kissing their ass, maybe they’ll let you in the club
- mcjkrw 6y ago
  Sometimes it's just more pleasant to focus on the work, even if it's boring and we are doing it for someone else. We have to spend the time anyway, we could spend it by being alert, or distracted and drifting off. Being alert feels good and there is some satisfaction from the work being done. Being distracted is mentally draining. Also, it's not only the stake holder that is profiting from the work, it's society as a whole - we all depend on this work.

dnautics 6y ago

Did you read the article? "I work less than I thought I did and that's ok"

Draiken 6y ago
I did. But it also mentions procrastination as a -4 point and sleep as a 0. And my sentiment is also from reading some of the comments here. So many people obsessed with productivity. Some have a clear reason to do so, but I fear many do it because of outside pressures, or never even thought about it.
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  The scores are relative to each other. I certainly prefer to sleep than to procrastinate, so this matches up with your example. And, I certainly prefer to do almost any task than procrastinate. Procrastination (by which I understand: wasted effort thinking about being productive without actually doing anything) makes me feel grim. I would have valued that time more doing almost anything else. If sleeping helps me to avoid procrastination, then this scoring system still encourages sufficient sleep to do that.
- hobofan 6y ago
  I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that scoring. Sleeping is basically neutral (maybe it should give 0.5 points instead or something small that doesn't dilute the rest of the scoring system). I'd also score procrastination negatively even if you are not obsessed with productivity. Procrastination can easily cause negative feelings (and for me is probably one of the biggest sources for them) and can be viewed as a separate thing as dedicated downtime.
  - Draiken 6y ago
    Oh, neither do I. What made me sad is that I'd likely have a very similar scoring if I did this myself. For example, I wish I didn't score sleep as a waste of time, when it's likely more important than many of the things regularly deemed important by society.

sunir 6y ago

I think you have a very narrow understanding of what "productive" means. You can produce or make progress towards anything that you value. Making other people money is just one avenue. If you had a year to live, you would definitely want to be productive. There's a lot that needs to get done to wrap up your one single life well, so that your time on earth wasn't lost. Just getting your will and testament done, talking to all your loved ones, getting your affairs in order for any dependents, tying up any loose ends so they aren't inherited, cleaning up your house for the estate. If you know older people, you'll see them doing these kinds of activities in their later years. That's still being productive. You're still making progress.

CarelessExpert 6y ago
> If you had a year to live, you would definitely want to be productive. No, I'd want to be happy. It's the uniquely American Calvinist view that conflates these things.
- oblio 6y ago
  Yeah, agreed. I don't think I know any person that's written their will, for example.
  - maya24 6y ago
    It's irresponsible for anyone with kids to have not done this.
    - vntok 6y ago
      Completely depends on where you live. Many countries have sane defaults for simple cases.
      - lemming 6y ago
        No country can have a sane default for “who should look after my kids if both parents die suddenly?”. That will always be a very personal decision that depends very much on your family situation.

gibrown 6y ago

> If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? I figure almost everyone would shift all their focus on doing things that "really matter". But if you are going to try and do things that "really matter" don't you want to be productive at them? I've seen a number of folks with ALS who have done amazing things with the time they had left, and I am sure they focused on their productivity in doing them. This also isn't a hypothetical for me. I have a damaged spinal cord and have spent amazing amounts of time tracking data to try and improve my body and my life. Not the same as facing death since I am trying to optimize my time to get back to a point where my body is stronger and in less pain so I can spend more time with my kids and also do the other things I want. It is a very tough balance.

Draiken 6y ago
> But if you are going to try and do things that "really matter" don't you want to be productive at them? I'd definitely try to, hehe. For me it's more about what we categorize as productive than the experiment itself. The experiment is a great way to gather data. But the categorization made me really think about what people, in general, categorize as "productive". Maybe sleeping should be way more important than many job related things, but by default we assume sleeping is just a necessity, many times sacrificing it in favor of the others.
- gibrown 6y ago
  Ya personally I consider sleep to be very very productive. I just spent two months doing cognitive behavioral therapy to improve it (went from ave 5.75 hrs to 6.7 hrs per night). Massive benefit.

duke_core 6y ago

I can't remember his name, there was a youtuber named Ali Abdal (I think?) whose videos are focused around productivity and they give me the same feeling that you're talking about in your comment. When you're talking about to 'productively' watch tv shows while try to get some work done in the background thats going a bit too far

Insanity 6y ago
Yes it's that youtuber (Ali Abdal). He had this video about productively watching TV by watching the netflix shows sped up 2x or something like that. Similar for listening to audio books etc. Personally quite dislike those kind of ideas as well, takes the joy out of recreation.

javajosh 6y ago

I can be pessimistic, too, but I had a different reaction. The OP's post is about measuring a life according to behaviors (activities) and with that data the OP is thinking out loud about how he wants to change things. This is an artifact that describes an analytical mind observing and addressing the daily animal/mind hybrid that actually lives in and experiences the world. I tend to agree that "productivity" is an unhealthy obsession linked to vain status chasing, and (among many circles) a vaguely sinister implication. It is too often used as a euphamistic criticism by employers who inevitably want more out of the workers. Produce or die is the default law of the capitalist jungle, so the "productivity number" is the number that a system would use to fire you. But the OP's situation is quite different. There is no misalignment between "the boss" (his current analytical mind) and "the worker" (the daily mind/body cyborg beast). The boss really wants the best for the worker; the worker really wants to do his best for the boss. (And to me it seems like the boss has his priorities straight, and is doing right by his worker with this analysis and recommendations).

polote 6y ago

Well, the answer is easy. We are all different. We all have one only life, some people prefer to spend it watching football, some being productive, some helping others, and some ... Of course you will also find people who are not happy at the life they have, and trying to live the life of others. But you will also find people being happy doing things that make other people sad.

dvtrn 6y ago
Well, the answer is easy. We are all different It’s so easy it gets skipped over in almost every thread like this, it seems, where someone goes off on some expedition of personal development and chooses to write about it to share with others where inevitably someone comes along to pontificate why anyone would even bother. There’s not always going to be some neat, logical nor highfalutin reason for an individual making a choice about documenting, recording and analyzing parts of their life. And that’s fine. Promise.

mbeex 6y ago

Another issue here is an extremely narrowed definition of productivity. It has cog-like traits, Fordian belt work comes to mind. Yes, in this context you can become less productive for one reason or another. But all these micro-optimizations will also affect the mind in the long run in a much more profound way. More than anything its higher forms - even of productivity - especially these connected with creativity. You cannot fight this with a clock watch the same way the vast majority of people cannot lose weight by simply dieting. For this, you need positive incentives. Not to be misunderstood, sometimes you have simply to grit your teeth.

nitrogen 6y ago

I think if you were going to die in a year you would stop doing everything with a payoff more than a few months in the future. It's a mistake to think that what "really matters" is whatever pays off now instead of later. When you have longer to live, it makes sense to work now to get more of what "really matters" five, ten, and twenty years down the line.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
It's not about payoffs. I really challenge anyone to say with a straight face that they'd say on their deathbed "I wish I would have done more spreadsheets on the minutae of my life."

onion2k 6y ago

If you discovered you were going to die in a year, would you continue to spend all your time being "productive"? No. But if I discovered I was going to die in 30 years time, and I wanted to make sure my house was paid for, I'd done the things I want to do, and there were savings in the bank to make sure my partner was safe, then I absolutely would. Most of us are closer to that position than being on the verge of imminent death.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
Yea, you have some larger goals, Everyone does. Are you going to track goals every 15 minutes? I doubt it.

reaperducer 6y ago

I'm with you. If it took one minute to log each of the previous 14, I'd rather have 24 hours of my life back. It's the same with social media. Once I realized that spending two hours a day on social media meant I was giving up 30 days of my life each year for... what? So someone in SV can buy a second boat, or a third house? I limit my social media to under 15 minutes a day now (including HN.) If the social ad tech companies want more than that, they can pay me.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
The only thing you can think of doing once you were to ween yourself from your vices (like OP and social media) is work? Even worse, making someone else rich? You obviously don’t think that, so I don’t get why you and grandparent are projecting that onto OP. I want to minimize my wasted time like mindless Redditing so that I can maximize my time spent doing things that fulfill me. It’s just a great tragedy that it’s so much easier to waste time in unfulfilling ways like spending a day in a heroin nod than it is to do the things that maximize my life.