6 ms·

Probably harder than simply creating and standardising a .gov website that hosts research. It's difficult to demonstrate how journals are more than (or utilised

Probably harder than simply creating and standardising a .gov website that hosts research. It's difficult to demonstrate how journals are more than (or utilised better than) search engines.

6510 6y ago
Maybe the science education should involve some basic marketing training to teach the scientist that the fruits of their skills + months of their work + expensive equipment + other funding doesn't add up to something they can just give away. Maybe if they paid for everything themselves it would be ethical. Either way it is just incredibly dumb and we should punish them for spending tax money like that if they don't grow up soon. Maybe just bill them as an extra tax if they want to publish behind closed doors. Gradually increase the tax until they see the light. Or call it a fine if you like.
gruez 6y ago
AFAIK the problem isn't with finding a place to host the papers, but that the non-open access journals require you to sign over the paper's copyright to them.
- Bancakes 6y ago
  I think the problem with open access and such is that they're relatively unknown. When you have a standardised, credible, authoritative source, well, that's all journals have for them. Only this time it's government-guaranteed instead of an appeal to corporate authority.
  - czzr 6y ago
    An issue with open access is that you have to pay thousands of dollars up front to get published - fine if you’re in a rich western lab, not so great if you’re in India or some other emerging country.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      Why do you have to pay thousands of dollars up front though? It doesn't cost that to host a paper. Reviewers don't get paid. Where does the money go?
      - esyir 6y ago
        To the Journal. They want money too, but for open access it comes from the researchers. For closed access, it comes from the subscriptions. Forcing open access is still the same as just paying for the subscription, as far as it goes, since if public funds are used for this, it's all the same thing.
        2Gkashmiri 6y ago
        Why cant we just use scihub to host these "open access" stuff... What is the benefit for an end user like me or to the author or to the reviewer to necesarily pay a third party like a publisher in 2021 ? Why cant we just let them die in their circlejerk copyrights with only old content?

Probably harder than simply creating and standardising a .gov website that hosts research. It's difficult to demonstrate how journals are more than (or utilised better than) search engines.

6510 6y ago

Maybe the science education should involve some basic marketing training to teach the scientist that the fruits of their skills + months of their work + expensive equipment + other funding doesn't add up to something they can just give away. Maybe if they paid for everything themselves it would be ethical. Either way it is just incredibly dumb and we should punish them for spending tax money like that if they don't grow up soon. Maybe just bill them as an extra tax if they want to publish behind closed doors. Gradually increase the tax until they see the light. Or call it a fine if you like.

gruez 6y ago

AFAIK the problem isn't with finding a place to host the papers, but that the non-open access journals require you to sign over the paper's copyright to them.

Bancakes 6y ago
I think the problem with open access and such is that they're relatively unknown. When you have a standardised, credible, authoritative source, well, that's all journals have for them. Only this time it's government-guaranteed instead of an appeal to corporate authority.
- czzr 6y ago
  An issue with open access is that you have to pay thousands of dollars up front to get published - fine if you’re in a rich western lab, not so great if you’re in India or some other emerging country.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    Why do you have to pay thousands of dollars up front though? It doesn't cost that to host a paper. Reviewers don't get paid. Where does the money go?
    - esyir 6y ago
      To the Journal. They want money too, but for open access it comes from the researchers. For closed access, it comes from the subscriptions. Forcing open access is still the same as just paying for the subscription, as far as it goes, since if public funds are used for this, it's all the same thing.
      - 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
        Why cant we just use scihub to host these "open access" stuff... What is the benefit for an end user like me or to the author or to the reviewer to necesarily pay a third party like a publisher in 2021 ? Why cant we just let them die in their circlejerk copyrights with only old content?