5 ms·

This is a great news, Universities were already using their subscription to give access to its students, researchers; Considering govt. was paying for that (pub

This is a great news, Universities were already using their subscription to give access to its students, researchers; Considering govt. was paying for that (public universities) and other research centers for access anyways; Giving access to all tax payers makes absolute sense. The current Principal Scientific Adviser to the Government of India - Prof. K. VijayRaghavan[1] have been publicly pushing for greater scientific literacy in the country incl. using the current rise in coverage of science/research in mass media due to pandemic as a platform to promote wider adoption of scientific content. [1]https://twitter.com/kvijayraghavan https://twitter.com/kvijayraghavan

mncharity 6y ago
> This is a great news The journal aspect, regrettably not. The publishers are trying to shut down sci-hub, and to disincentivize policies of mandatory open-access. And they have a long history of getting in a door with tolerable cost and terms, and then each time you need to renew the contract, costs are higher, terms are worse, and both are bundled so "there's nothing you can do about it, is there?". Combine those ethics with Indian governance's potential for kickbacks, and sadly, not good news.
- seg_lol 6y ago
  India should mandate that all research done in the country with any level of state sponsorship should also be made available through a digital library within six months of publication in any journal.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  True, but what's the alternative? India cannot do something radical like endorsing SciHub or Libgen and risk derailing progress in academic scientific publishing. But it doesn't mean India hasn't done anything in the past to disrupt absurd greedy licensing regimes e.g. Generic medicines vs Int'l Pharma Patents. I see every day lives getting saved by generic medicines from 'generic medicine only' stores in India and not to mention India's generic medicines being the lifeline for other poor countries. For this, India's generic medicine industry has been facing the ire from WTO to Interpol[1]. [1]https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/Generic-makers-wary-about-Interpol-pact-with-drug-majors/article20590463.ece https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/Generic-maker...
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    India's generic medicines are a godsend. Not only for poorer countries, but also for the un- or under-insured in wealthier countries like the US.
    - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
      True, I stand corrected. I only recently realized the impact of India's generic medicine in even developed countries when a user in my problem validation platform asked for a solution to 'finding generic medicine equivalent for branded drugs'[1]. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/83-finding-generic-equivalents-for-branded-drugs-medicine-drugs https://needgap.com/problems/83-finding-generic-equivalents-... (Disclaimer: I created this problem validation platform).
      - sebmellen 6y ago
        Very neat platform. How long has it been around?
        Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
        Thank you, I've been running it for a year and half now.
  - mncharity 6y ago
    > what's the alternative? Not my field, but let's say the societal goal is to continue to transition the journal publishing industry from a business model of customer lock-in, rent seeking, and restrictive access, to a model that's competitive, fee for service, and open-access. As this is a transition from a very profitable high-margin model, to a commodity low-margin model, the industry will be more opponent than cooperative partner in this process. Two policies which seem to me as having been notably helpful, are mandatory open-access tied to government funding of research, and the continued existence of sci-hub. Which suggests spreading the former, and avoiding actions which endanger the near-term existence of the latter. Endorsement doesn't seem needed... merely deferred enforcement. Sci-hub both remedies the societal harm of restrictive access, and reduces industry incentive to slow the transition. Perhaps something vaguely resembling this deal might be where we end up long term, but for now, it seems more like society is in an actively abusive relationship, giving up some of its limited leverage, for an untrustworthy commitment to do less harm, to some, for a time. > generic medicine Nod. Perhaps that makes for an interesting analogy. Imagine pharma had years ago offered India a deal: we'll give you lower-cost access to many medicines for a time, if you shut down your generic medicine industry.
mncharity 6y ago
> greater scientific literacy Yes, sci-hub has made the research literature far more accessible to anyone not currently affiliated with a university. Including journalists, and anyone creating educational content. Even in fields with an emphasis on open access. Which many fields still lack. And the introduction sections of papers can sometimes be surprisingly accessible to even young students. I wouldn't even be considering working on improving science education content, if sci-hub didn't exist. And I used libgen the other day, to check the best-selling introductory astronomy textbooks, and find they most all have the color of the Sun wrong (really - there's a common misconception, pervasive in introductory astronomy education content). From some of the same publishing corporations too. It's something I've been meaning to check for years, and which finally happened, only because libgen made it easy.
- konjin 6y ago
  In the 00s it would take me a month to hunt down an obscure reference in a book from 1930. Today I can find it in 99% of cases under 30 seconds on libgen. It's not that I don't want to pay, I don't want to pay for an inferior service that only exists because legacy media is addicted to unsustainable profits. Music isn't free on spotify, but it's a superior service to downloading albums off soulseek so I pay for that, even though 16 year old me in the 00s didn't.

mncharity 6y ago

> This is a great news The journal aspect, regrettably not. The publishers are trying to shut down sci-hub, and to disincentivize policies of mandatory open-access. And they have a long history of getting in a door with tolerable cost and terms, and then each time you need to renew the contract, costs are higher, terms are worse, and both are bundled so "there's nothing you can do about it, is there?". Combine those ethics with Indian governance's potential for kickbacks, and sadly, not good news.

seg_lol 6y ago
India should mandate that all research done in the country with any level of state sponsorship should also be made available through a digital library within six months of publication in any journal.
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
True, but what's the alternative? India cannot do something radical like endorsing SciHub or Libgen and risk derailing progress in academic scientific publishing. But it doesn't mean India hasn't done anything in the past to disrupt absurd greedy licensing regimes e.g. Generic medicines vs Int'l Pharma Patents. I see every day lives getting saved by generic medicines from 'generic medicine only' stores in India and not to mention India's generic medicines being the lifeline for other poor countries. For this, India's generic medicine industry has been facing the ire from WTO to Interpol[1]. [1]https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/Generic-makers-wary-about-Interpol-pact-with-drug-majors/article20590463.ece https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/Generic-maker...
- sebmellen 6y ago
  India's generic medicines are a godsend. Not only for poorer countries, but also for the un- or under-insured in wealthier countries like the US.
  - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
    True, I stand corrected. I only recently realized the impact of India's generic medicine in even developed countries when a user in my problem validation platform asked for a solution to 'finding generic medicine equivalent for branded drugs'[1]. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/83-finding-generic-equivalents-for-branded-drugs-medicine-drugs https://needgap.com/problems/83-finding-generic-equivalents-... (Disclaimer: I created this problem validation platform).
    - sebmellen 6y ago
      Very neat platform. How long has it been around?
      - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
        Thank you, I've been running it for a year and half now.
- mncharity 6y ago
  > what's the alternative? Not my field, but let's say the societal goal is to continue to transition the journal publishing industry from a business model of customer lock-in, rent seeking, and restrictive access, to a model that's competitive, fee for service, and open-access. As this is a transition from a very profitable high-margin model, to a commodity low-margin model, the industry will be more opponent than cooperative partner in this process. Two policies which seem to me as having been notably helpful, are mandatory open-access tied to government funding of research, and the continued existence of sci-hub. Which suggests spreading the former, and avoiding actions which endanger the near-term existence of the latter. Endorsement doesn't seem needed... merely deferred enforcement. Sci-hub both remedies the societal harm of restrictive access, and reduces industry incentive to slow the transition. Perhaps something vaguely resembling this deal might be where we end up long term, but for now, it seems more like society is in an actively abusive relationship, giving up some of its limited leverage, for an untrustworthy commitment to do less harm, to some, for a time. > generic medicine Nod. Perhaps that makes for an interesting analogy. Imagine pharma had years ago offered India a deal: we'll give you lower-cost access to many medicines for a time, if you shut down your generic medicine industry.

mncharity 6y ago

> greater scientific literacy Yes, sci-hub has made the research literature far more accessible to anyone not currently affiliated with a university. Including journalists, and anyone creating educational content. Even in fields with an emphasis on open access. Which many fields still lack. And the introduction sections of papers can sometimes be surprisingly accessible to even young students. I wouldn't even be considering working on improving science education content, if sci-hub didn't exist. And I used libgen the other day, to check the best-selling introductory astronomy textbooks, and find they most all have the color of the Sun wrong (really - there's a common misconception, pervasive in introductory astronomy education content). From some of the same publishing corporations too. It's something I've been meaning to check for years, and which finally happened, only because libgen made it easy.

konjin 6y ago
In the 00s it would take me a month to hunt down an obscure reference in a book from 1930. Today I can find it in 99% of cases under 30 seconds on libgen. It's not that I don't want to pay, I don't want to pay for an inferior service that only exists because legacy media is addicted to unsustainable profits. Music isn't free on spotify, but it's a superior service to downloading albums off soulseek so I pay for that, even though 16 year old me in the 00s didn't.