11 ms·

Love the design but debit cards always feel a bit dicey to use.

by newhaus1994 6y ago

slekker 6y ago
Why dicey?
- derwiki 6y ago
  In my experience, harder to dispute fraudulent charges.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  They don't have the same legal protections for their use. There's hardly ever any reason to use a debit card over a credit card.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    In the EU, there are lower charges for the merchant when a debit card is used. Sometimes, this results in a small charge for using a credit card. (Note that TreeCard is an English company, where they have inherited this cost difference.)
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > Sometimes, this results in a small charge for using a credit card. That's not the way it's been for years - it became illegal in the UK to do this a while ago.
      - jsjohnst 6y ago
        > That's not the way it's been for years If it’s a Visa or MC backed card, it’s always been against their merchant policies to surcharge a CC and merchants can lose their ability to process cards if they do. It definitely hasn’t stopped merchants from doing it though (in the US mainly, but have seen it elsewhere too).
    - jsjohnst 6y ago
      > In the EU, there are lower charges for the merchant when a debit card is used. This is definitely the case in the US. The fees vary between different acquiring banks, merchant gateways and cards, but generally they follow a pattern similar to the following: CC - $0.25 + 1-4% of the transaction amount Debit - $0.25 - 0.50 and no percentage
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Better secured and you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? I ditched my CCs as soon as debit cards could be reliably used for on-line purchases. And AFAIK, the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs". I'm in Europe, though. That may be an European thing.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? A free loan means you can keep your own money invested or otherwise working more efficiently for you somehow. > the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs" I've never seen this - I see 'use CC's more to build up your credit'. I use my cards religiously and have near perfect credit based on I think basically on this alone as it's the only credit I use beside my mortgage.
      - briandear 6y ago
        The problem is that most people lack discipline and run up debt. Using CCs is fine if you are extremely disciplined. Dave Ramsey made a career out of teaching “normal” undisciplined people how to avoid and eliminate debt and that includes the advice of “never ever use credit cards or get loans.” A 15 year home mortgage with 20% or more down is the only acceptable debt in his eyes. (And that’s because human nature often leads people into debt, not because of any mathematical basis.) For the majority of “normal” people, he’s right.
        throwaway201103 6y ago
        We don't spend nearly enough time in primary and high school teaching practical personal finance. For many people that could be the single most important life skill they learn in 12 years of education.
      - elric 6y ago
        > Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? Because it's usually not free. Most banks charge some fee for providing a credit card. Debit cards are completely free with most banks.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    This is location dependent though. A easy way to see if someone is from the US, is if they advice you to prefer credit cards rather than debit cards. Meanwhile in Europe, there is no reason to have a credit card instead of debit. On the contrary, it's more risky to have a credit card rather than debit as on debit cards the limit for overdraft is usually way lower than how much someone could spend with your credit card. I'm 30+ and never owned a credit card, nor had any reason to get one.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > in Europe, there is no reason to have a credit card instead of debit There concrete reasons to use one in Europe (at least where I live): It's a month's free loan - why spend your own money when you can keep it invested or otherwise working for you for a month first for free? Consumer credit law is still stronger for paying on credit than on debit. I used to fly transatlantic first class once a year for free based on just my credit card rewards. I'm not some unusually high earner either. What possible reason is there to turn that down?
      - capableweb 6y ago
        Yeah, where I live you have exactly the same protections using credit card vs debit cards. Credit cards here don't usually have good rewards either. If you spend 10000 euros you might get 10 back in the end of the year, hardly something to hurrah for. Sometimes they give you a free TV if you open up a bank account with the bank and change to the bank to receive your monthly salary, but that's about it. So don't really have any reasons to use a credit card instead of a debit, as I only spend money I have anyways. If I remember correctly, banks here also always give you a debit card when you sign up with them, while credit cards have to be applied for separately and also usually has a yearly fee, compared to debit cards that are free.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        What do you think about the argument about it allowing you to keep your money invested for longer? Say you're ordering something large like a car. You can pay the deposit on a debit card, and lose access to the money immediately, or you can pay on a credit card, and keep your money invested for another month or so, still earning you money, until you need to settle. A credit card gives a consumer liquidity. I don't think it's an unusual economic concept to say that liquidity is useful and helps you use your money more efficiently.
  - lol768 6y ago
    This depends upon the geographical location and indeed, the amount you're spending. I'd definitely use my Amex for items over £100 (for Section 75 protection) but under that amount my understanding was that you're reliant on the (voluntary) chargeback scheme which I can use with my bank and debit card too. So the only thing you really gain for the smaller purchases is the money not leaving your account with the CC, I think?
  - jasonv 6y ago
    Not relevant since people use debit cards all day long.
  - elric 6y ago
    It's strange to me that legal protections vary per payment method where you're from. If you bought something defective, warranty should cover it. If your flight gets cancelled, there's probably some kind of consumer protection in place. If you were robbed or defrauded in some way, there's laws and protections against that as well. Some CCs come with insurance over here, but those are just that: insurance.
fullstackchris 6y ago
Yeah looks great but a combined credit or debit card would be better.

Love the design but debit cards always feel a bit dicey to use.

slekker 6y ago

Why dicey?

derwiki 6y ago
In my experience, harder to dispute fraudulent charges.
chrisseaton 6y ago
They don't have the same legal protections for their use. There's hardly ever any reason to use a debit card over a credit card.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  In the EU, there are lower charges for the merchant when a debit card is used. Sometimes, this results in a small charge for using a credit card. (Note that TreeCard is an English company, where they have inherited this cost difference.)
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Sometimes, this results in a small charge for using a credit card. That's not the way it's been for years - it became illegal in the UK to do this a while ago.
    - jsjohnst 6y ago
      > That's not the way it's been for years If it’s a Visa or MC backed card, it’s always been against their merchant policies to surcharge a CC and merchants can lose their ability to process cards if they do. It definitely hasn’t stopped merchants from doing it though (in the US mainly, but have seen it elsewhere too).
  - jsjohnst 6y ago
    > In the EU, there are lower charges for the merchant when a debit card is used. This is definitely the case in the US. The fees vary between different acquiring banks, merchant gateways and cards, but generally they follow a pattern similar to the following: CC - $0.25 + 1-4% of the transaction amount Debit - $0.25 - 0.50 and no percentage
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Better secured and you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? I ditched my CCs as soon as debit cards could be reliably used for on-line purchases. And AFAIK, the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs". I'm in Europe, though. That may be an European thing.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > you're using the money you have vs. taking a loan? Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? A free loan means you can keep your own money invested or otherwise working more efficiently for you somehow. > the no.1 personal finance advice is "stop using CCs" I've never seen this - I see 'use CC's more to build up your credit'. I use my cards religiously and have near perfect credit based on I think basically on this alone as it's the only credit I use beside my mortgage.
    - briandear 6y ago
      The problem is that most people lack discipline and run up debt. Using CCs is fine if you are extremely disciplined. Dave Ramsey made a career out of teaching “normal” undisciplined people how to avoid and eliminate debt and that includes the advice of “never ever use credit cards or get loans.” A 15 year home mortgage with 20% or more down is the only acceptable debt in his eyes. (And that’s because human nature often leads people into debt, not because of any mathematical basis.) For the majority of “normal” people, he’s right.
      - throwaway201103 6y ago
        We don't spend nearly enough time in primary and high school teaching practical personal finance. For many people that could be the single most important life skill they learn in 12 years of education.
    - elric 6y ago
      > Why would you want to use the money you have when you can take a free loan until the end of the month? Because it's usually not free. Most banks charge some fee for providing a credit card. Debit cards are completely free with most banks.
- capableweb 6y ago
  This is location dependent though. A easy way to see if someone is from the US, is if they advice you to prefer credit cards rather than debit cards. Meanwhile in Europe, there is no reason to have a credit card instead of debit. On the contrary, it's more risky to have a credit card rather than debit as on debit cards the limit for overdraft is usually way lower than how much someone could spend with your credit card. I'm 30+ and never owned a credit card, nor had any reason to get one.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > in Europe, there is no reason to have a credit card instead of debit There concrete reasons to use one in Europe (at least where I live): It's a month's free loan - why spend your own money when you can keep it invested or otherwise working for you for a month first for free? Consumer credit law is still stronger for paying on credit than on debit. I used to fly transatlantic first class once a year for free based on just my credit card rewards. I'm not some unusually high earner either. What possible reason is there to turn that down?
    - capableweb 6y ago
      Yeah, where I live you have exactly the same protections using credit card vs debit cards. Credit cards here don't usually have good rewards either. If you spend 10000 euros you might get 10 back in the end of the year, hardly something to hurrah for. Sometimes they give you a free TV if you open up a bank account with the bank and change to the bank to receive your monthly salary, but that's about it. So don't really have any reasons to use a credit card instead of a debit, as I only spend money I have anyways. If I remember correctly, banks here also always give you a debit card when you sign up with them, while credit cards have to be applied for separately and also usually has a yearly fee, compared to debit cards that are free.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        What do you think about the argument about it allowing you to keep your money invested for longer? Say you're ordering something large like a car. You can pay the deposit on a debit card, and lose access to the money immediately, or you can pay on a credit card, and keep your money invested for another month or so, still earning you money, until you need to settle. A credit card gives a consumer liquidity. I don't think it's an unusual economic concept to say that liquidity is useful and helps you use your money more efficiently.
- lol768 6y ago
  This depends upon the geographical location and indeed, the amount you're spending. I'd definitely use my Amex for items over £100 (for Section 75 protection) but under that amount my understanding was that you're reliant on the (voluntary) chargeback scheme which I can use with my bank and debit card too. So the only thing you really gain for the smaller purchases is the money not leaving your account with the CC, I think?
- jasonv 6y ago
  Not relevant since people use debit cards all day long.
- elric 6y ago
  It's strange to me that legal protections vary per payment method where you're from. If you bought something defective, warranty should cover it. If your flight gets cancelled, there's probably some kind of consumer protection in place. If you were robbed or defrauded in some way, there's laws and protections against that as well. Some CCs come with insurance over here, but those are just that: insurance.

fullstackchris 6y ago

Yeah looks great but a combined credit or debit card would be better.