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Couple of interesting snippets: Apple languages don’t reach the top-10 of languages used on GitHub. While this is likely impacted by the Objective-C/Swift spli

by bergie 6y ago

Couple of interesting snippets: Apple languages don’t reach the top-10 of languages used on GitHub. While this is likely impacted by the Objective-C/Swift split, it still shows how niche development for that platform is. The rise of China in Open Source contributions, along with GitHub’s estimate that they’ll be the biggest contributing country by 2030.

CorpOverreach 6y ago
I wouldn't necessarily call their platform a niche - but rather one that doesn't foster a lot of open-source contributions. I've always felt like development on Apple's platforms, even when wildly successful, is often a close-sourced and proprietary endeavor. It doesn't surprise me much that there isn't a big footprint of their languages on GitHub.
- Macha 6y ago
  Yeah, I think there's more of a culture of paid (and therefore mostly closed source apps) on Apple platforms. Whereas anything cross platform is _not_ using Apple languages for the bulk of their code base, and Linux focused/exclusive apps are going to be over represented among open source because people who value open source are more likely to use an open source OS
EvilEy3 6y ago
> Apple languages don’t reach the top-10 of languages used on GitHub. While this is likely impacted by the Objective-C/Swift split, it still shows how niche development for that platform is. Michelin 3-star restaurants don't reach the top used in world either.
- wing-_-nuts 6y ago
  I think a more apt analogy would be the 'soup nazi' and your soup can only be eaten in special, overpriced 'soup nazi' bowls.
- alxlaz 6y ago
  > Michelin 3-star restaurants don't reach the top used in world either. On the other hand, Michelin 3-star restaurants will typically give you cutlery along with your dinner, instead of telling you that you've got a drawer full of cutlery at home anyway. I'm not at all convinced this is the right analogy ;-). The more likely reason is the one Macha mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25632710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25632710 . Apple's environment has a tradition of paid, closed-source development, and any cross-platform tools that also support macOS or iOS are unlikely to be built with Apple's macOS/iOS-only tools.
cxr 6y ago
> shows how niche development for that platform Alternatively: GitHub is still, despite belief to the contrary on places like HN, not synonymous with open source, let alone the entire world of software development. Each is a (limited) projection of that world. When you speak of them together, you are referring to two things, each belonging to a distinctly identifiable milieu. What you're observing is that the overlap between them is small.
- habosa 6y ago
  If GitHub isn't synonymous with open source, what is?
  - jcelerier 6y ago
    not everything needs a synonym
- ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
  Conceptually sure, but in practice is there actually a place where open source developers for apple products gather? On a related note, do you guys know of other, lesser known, websites where specific niches of developers hang out? I mostly stick to github and rarely I'll go to sourceforge and gitlab but I haven't noticed patterns of specialties in their users. In the past I knew some semi-private German communities for reverse engineering but recently (2010+) it seems everything is getting more and more centralized and you can't find those kind of places anymore. I'd love to find some small communities of passionate people, not yet overrun by the mainstream crowd.
nvrspyx 6y ago
I believe the App Store policies are also incompatible with GPL, which further hinders open-source contributions from the Apple community.
- jcelerier 6y ago
  nope, there are LGPL & GPL software on the app store and have been for quite some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_and_open-source_iOS_applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_and_open-source_i... The issue that prevented GPL back in 2010 was having to pay a fee to be able to upload new code to your own device, which has not been the case for 4/5 years now
  - lights0123 6y ago
    Do you have a source for that? AFAIK all of the GPL'd apps in that list don't have GPL dependencies made by other people, so they're free to release the code under the GPL and distribute it on the App Store without following those terms. See Signal's 2016 post about it: https://signal.org/blog/license-update/ https://signal.org/blog/license-update/

by bergie 6y ago

CorpOverreach 6y ago

I wouldn't necessarily call their platform a niche - but rather one that doesn't foster a lot of open-source contributions. I've always felt like development on Apple's platforms, even when wildly successful, is often a close-sourced and proprietary endeavor. It doesn't surprise me much that there isn't a big footprint of their languages on GitHub.

Macha 6y ago
Yeah, I think there's more of a culture of paid (and therefore mostly closed source apps) on Apple platforms. Whereas anything cross platform is _not_ using Apple languages for the bulk of their code base, and Linux focused/exclusive apps are going to be over represented among open source because people who value open source are more likely to use an open source OS

EvilEy3 6y ago

> Apple languages don’t reach the top-10 of languages used on GitHub. While this is likely impacted by the Objective-C/Swift split, it still shows how niche development for that platform is. Michelin 3-star restaurants don't reach the top used in world either.

wing-_-nuts 6y ago
I think a more apt analogy would be the 'soup nazi' and your soup can only be eaten in special, overpriced 'soup nazi' bowls.
alxlaz 6y ago
> Michelin 3-star restaurants don't reach the top used in world either. On the other hand, Michelin 3-star restaurants will typically give you cutlery along with your dinner, instead of telling you that you've got a drawer full of cutlery at home anyway. I'm not at all convinced this is the right analogy ;-). The more likely reason is the one Macha mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25632710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25632710 . Apple's environment has a tradition of paid, closed-source development, and any cross-platform tools that also support macOS or iOS are unlikely to be built with Apple's macOS/iOS-only tools.

cxr 6y ago

> shows how niche development for that platform Alternatively: GitHub is still, despite belief to the contrary on places like HN, not synonymous with open source, let alone the entire world of software development. Each is a (limited) projection of that world. When you speak of them together, you are referring to two things, each belonging to a distinctly identifiable milieu. What you're observing is that the overlap between them is small.

habosa 6y ago
If GitHub isn't synonymous with open source, what is?
- jcelerier 6y ago
  not everything needs a synonym
ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
Conceptually sure, but in practice is there actually a place where open source developers for apple products gather? On a related note, do you guys know of other, lesser known, websites where specific niches of developers hang out? I mostly stick to github and rarely I'll go to sourceforge and gitlab but I haven't noticed patterns of specialties in their users. In the past I knew some semi-private German communities for reverse engineering but recently (2010+) it seems everything is getting more and more centralized and you can't find those kind of places anymore. I'd love to find some small communities of passionate people, not yet overrun by the mainstream crowd.

nvrspyx 6y ago

I believe the App Store policies are also incompatible with GPL, which further hinders open-source contributions from the Apple community.

jcelerier 6y ago
nope, there are LGPL & GPL software on the app store and have been for quite some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_and_open-source_iOS_applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_and_open-source_i... The issue that prevented GPL back in 2010 was having to pay a fee to be able to upload new code to your own device, which has not been the case for 4/5 years now
- lights0123 6y ago
  Do you have a source for that? AFAIK all of the GPL'd apps in that list don't have GPL dependencies made by other people, so they're free to release the code under the GPL and distribute it on the App Store without following those terms. See Signal's 2016 post about it: https://signal.org/blog/license-update/ https://signal.org/blog/license-update/