3 ms·

It's not particularly elegant, is it? You just want to plot the sine function, but first you have to import libraries, declare symbols (with a scary correspond

It's not particularly elegant, is it? You just want to plot the sine function, but first you have to import libraries, declare symbols (with a scary correspondence between strings and variable names), and finally plot the damn function.

mkl 6y ago
I literally always have a Jupyter QtConsole open with one tab having Sympy loaded, and every single letter variable defined as a symbolic variable, and another tab with numpy; this is my constant daily-use calculator. In that context, it really is just "plot(sin(x))". It's not really anything more than having a terminal open with Gnuplot running, and no less elegant. Edit: plus, if I'm plotting with Sympy it's almost certainly something I've calculated symbolically with Sympy, so everything is defined and ready, and it's much more elegant than switching to a separate program. For a one-off "what does function look like?" question, both these tools are far too clunky, and I'd use Desmos or GeoGebra.
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  If people have to reduce to this hack, why doesn't the language just declare every character string a symbolic variable by default, like Mathematica?
  - mkl 6y ago
    Because the vast majority of Python programs aren't doing symbolic maths with Sympy. It's not a hack, and it's pretty trivial. I type "a," and press up, and run the line from my command history with all the letters in it. Sympy also has a submodule named abc you can import variables from, but I like defining them as real number variables so I don't get complex answers when they don't make sense. Sympy is just a Python library, and one of the types it defines is symbolic maths variables, so you define Python variables just like with any other library, and then use them.
    - enriquto 6y ago
      > Because the vast majority of Python programs aren't doing symbolic maths with Sympy. And this, my friends, is why mathematicians will never feel at home using Python+libraries. Instead of having a programming environment ideally suited to the needs of math, you need to fit your math to the Procrustean bed of Python syntax.
      - williamstein 6y ago
        SageMath solves these problems.
        tomrod 6y ago
        Exactly. Grandparent commenter is complaining about resolved issues that the community worked out years ago.
        abdullahkhalids 6y ago
        It does not. I tried to replicate some symbolic computation code I wrote during my PhD in Mathematica in SageMath, and I just failed to get anywhere despite weeks of trying. I don't think I don't understand SageMath enough.
      - tomrod 6y ago
        Eh, it's fine even despite your hyperbole. Applied mathematicians such as myself often use python without complaint. Setting up sympy takes no effort. Plus, #python on freenode.
      - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
        That is what I wanted to say. The Python scientific ecosystem seems like it is written by programmers for scientists, while Matlab/Mathematica seem like they are written by scientists for scientists.
nxpnsv 6y ago
One import statement is too much?

mkl 6y ago

I literally always have a Jupyter QtConsole open with one tab having Sympy loaded, and every single letter variable defined as a symbolic variable, and another tab with numpy; this is my constant daily-use calculator. In that context, it really is just "plot(sin(x))". It's not really anything more than having a terminal open with Gnuplot running, and no less elegant. Edit: plus, if I'm plotting with Sympy it's almost certainly something I've calculated symbolically with Sympy, so everything is defined and ready, and it's much more elegant than switching to a separate program. For a one-off "what does function look like?" question, both these tools are far too clunky, and I'd use Desmos or GeoGebra.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago
If people have to reduce to this hack, why doesn't the language just declare every character string a symbolic variable by default, like Mathematica?
- mkl 6y ago
  Because the vast majority of Python programs aren't doing symbolic maths with Sympy. It's not a hack, and it's pretty trivial. I type "a," and press up, and run the line from my command history with all the letters in it. Sympy also has a submodule named abc you can import variables from, but I like defining them as real number variables so I don't get complex answers when they don't make sense. Sympy is just a Python library, and one of the types it defines is symbolic maths variables, so you define Python variables just like with any other library, and then use them.
  - enriquto 6y ago
    > Because the vast majority of Python programs aren't doing symbolic maths with Sympy. And this, my friends, is why mathematicians will never feel at home using Python+libraries. Instead of having a programming environment ideally suited to the needs of math, you need to fit your math to the Procrustean bed of Python syntax.
    - williamstein 6y ago
      SageMath solves these problems.
      - tomrod 6y ago
        Exactly. Grandparent commenter is complaining about resolved issues that the community worked out years ago.
      - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
        It does not. I tried to replicate some symbolic computation code I wrote during my PhD in Mathematica in SageMath, and I just failed to get anywhere despite weeks of trying. I don't think I don't understand SageMath enough.
    - tomrod 6y ago
      Eh, it's fine even despite your hyperbole. Applied mathematicians such as myself often use python without complaint. Setting up sympy takes no effort. Plus, #python on freenode.
    - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
      That is what I wanted to say. The Python scientific ecosystem seems like it is written by programmers for scientists, while Matlab/Mathematica seem like they are written by scientists for scientists.

nxpnsv 6y ago

One import statement is too much?