4 ms·

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, except that perhaps there’s a lot of younger folks here who don’t remember just how utterly despised GWB was. He was Tru

by xienze 6y ago

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, except that perhaps there’s a lot of younger folks here who don’t remember just how utterly despised GWB was. He was Trump before Trump — both “literally Hitler” and the dumbest man on the planet at the same time. Obama’s Nobel prize was most certainly a “congratulations on not being Bush” prize. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Biden picks up one this year.

jldugger 6y ago
Trump has done precious little in the war department, so I don't think Biden will pick one up without actually doing something this go around.
- TheCoelacanth 6y ago
  Maybe he can shoot for the Medicine category instead.
dehrmann 6y ago
> both “literally Hitler” and the dumbest man on the planet at the same time I never got how Bush was supposed to be both an idiot and a mastermind.
- stretchcat 6y ago
  The narrative I remember is that Bush was an illiterate chimpanzee who was a puppet of Dick Cheney, the mastermind. Edit: I am recounting the narrative as I remember it, not endorsing it.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Being good at acquiring power seems at this point fully a function of intelligent PR which divorced from the myriad skills required to govern effectively. Neither Bush nor Trump did much good with the great power offered them.
busterarm 6y ago
> Obama’s Nobel prize was most certainly a “congratulations on not being Bush” prize. Except his legacy is arguably worse. Extrajudicial assassinations, the return of open-air slave markets, the deliberate overthrow of middle east governments that created the power vaccuum filled by ISIL, the inadvertant arming of ISIL through the deliberate arming of Jihadists in Syria (which is an ongoing civil war today)... Edit: Just to add. Bush (really Dick Cheyney) expanded the power of the Executive with the approval of Congress. Cheyney is a monster who saw 9/11 as a chance to consolidate executive power to the detriment of his rivals and enemies. Obama extended the power of the Executive largely through legal scheming of the DOJ, the courts abdicating their responsibility, labelling everything under the sun as "state secrets", and ruthlessly destroying the lives of whistleblowers. In fact, when using the secret courts set up by the Bush administration, Obama's still violated and exceeded its authority 5% of the time. There's clearly one of these that looks more dictatorial than the other and it's not the answer most people want.
- jkaplowitz 6y ago
  You're not wrong, but most of this wasn't known at the time his prize was awarded.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    Yes, clearly they awarded the prize not only before he did anything to earn it but before he did anything at all. Hopefully they consider their decisions going forward, but that seems unlikely.
- netsharc 6y ago
  > the deliberate overthrow of middle east governments that created the power vaccuum filled by ISIL I assume you mean in countries outside of Iraq? "Deliberate overthrow", citation please? I remember a friend in 2003 saying Bush's Iraq misadventure is going to fuck up a lot of things in the middle east... I can't believe how right he turned out to be. As far as I understand it the Arab Spring came about due to social unrest due to food shortage brought about by climate change (a 2010 forest fire in Russia burned a lot of grain, Russia stopped exporting them, food prices shot up: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=russia+forest+fires+grain+prices+arab+spring https://duckduckgo.com/?q=russia+forest+fires+grain+prices+a... ). Incredibly that has also lead to a lot of war-fleeing refugees, and the rise of right-wing populism in Europe. Also Brexit and Trump?
refurb 6y ago
Not sure why this is downvoted either. GWB was viewed the same way as Trump by social media (I agree the mass media was more muted than under Trump). He was regarded as “dumb” much more than Trump with every minor gaff amplified as evidence “our president is mentally handicapped”. Rinse and repeat with Trump, who arguably has a better track record at least in terms of starting wars. If you take a step back from how US politics works in the media (mass media and social media) you realize it’s just a complete clown show. Any one who gets their “news” from those sources is just along for the ride.

by xienze 6y ago

jldugger 6y ago

Trump has done precious little in the war department, so I don't think Biden will pick one up without actually doing something this go around.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago
Maybe he can shoot for the Medicine category instead.

dehrmann 6y ago

> both “literally Hitler” and the dumbest man on the planet at the same time I never got how Bush was supposed to be both an idiot and a mastermind.

stretchcat 6y ago
The narrative I remember is that Bush was an illiterate chimpanzee who was a puppet of Dick Cheney, the mastermind. Edit: I am recounting the narrative as I remember it, not endorsing it.
michaelmrose 6y ago
Being good at acquiring power seems at this point fully a function of intelligent PR which divorced from the myriad skills required to govern effectively. Neither Bush nor Trump did much good with the great power offered them.

busterarm 6y ago

> Obama’s Nobel prize was most certainly a “congratulations on not being Bush” prize. Except his legacy is arguably worse. Extrajudicial assassinations, the return of open-air slave markets, the deliberate overthrow of middle east governments that created the power vaccuum filled by ISIL, the inadvertant arming of ISIL through the deliberate arming of Jihadists in Syria (which is an ongoing civil war today)... Edit: Just to add. Bush (really Dick Cheyney) expanded the power of the Executive with the approval of Congress. Cheyney is a monster who saw 9/11 as a chance to consolidate executive power to the detriment of his rivals and enemies. Obama extended the power of the Executive largely through legal scheming of the DOJ, the courts abdicating their responsibility, labelling everything under the sun as "state secrets", and ruthlessly destroying the lives of whistleblowers. In fact, when using the secret courts set up by the Bush administration, Obama's still violated and exceeded its authority 5% of the time. There's clearly one of these that looks more dictatorial than the other and it's not the answer most people want.

jkaplowitz 6y ago
You're not wrong, but most of this wasn't known at the time his prize was awarded.
- busterarm 6y ago
  Yes, clearly they awarded the prize not only before he did anything to earn it but before he did anything at all. Hopefully they consider their decisions going forward, but that seems unlikely.
netsharc 6y ago
> the deliberate overthrow of middle east governments that created the power vaccuum filled by ISIL I assume you mean in countries outside of Iraq? "Deliberate overthrow", citation please? I remember a friend in 2003 saying Bush's Iraq misadventure is going to fuck up a lot of things in the middle east... I can't believe how right he turned out to be. As far as I understand it the Arab Spring came about due to social unrest due to food shortage brought about by climate change (a 2010 forest fire in Russia burned a lot of grain, Russia stopped exporting them, food prices shot up: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=russia+forest+fires+grain+prices+arab+spring https://duckduckgo.com/?q=russia+forest+fires+grain+prices+a... ). Incredibly that has also lead to a lot of war-fleeing refugees, and the rise of right-wing populism in Europe. Also Brexit and Trump?

refurb 6y ago

Not sure why this is downvoted either. GWB was viewed the same way as Trump by social media (I agree the mass media was more muted than under Trump). He was regarded as “dumb” much more than Trump with every minor gaff amplified as evidence “our president is mentally handicapped”. Rinse and repeat with Trump, who arguably has a better track record at least in terms of starting wars. If you take a step back from how US politics works in the media (mass media and social media) you realize it’s just a complete clown show. Any one who gets their “news” from those sources is just along for the ride.