3 ms·

It's not treasonous to be a terrorist. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giv

by xxpor 6y ago

It's not treasonous to be a terrorist. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." So a) terrorists aren't levying war, because they're not part of a state, and b) good luck ever fulfilling the 2 witness or confession requirement.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> terrorists aren't levying war, because they're not part of a state Being part of a state is not required to levy war.
- stretchcat 6y ago
  As far as I am aware, America hasn't had a legally declared war since WWII, and hasn't convicted anybody of treason since then either. Even the Rosenbergs, executed for espionage, weren't convicted of treason. It sure seems to me like in practice, it's not possible for an American to commit treason if there isn't a proper war on. Am I missing something?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > As far as I am aware, America hasn't had a legally declared war since WWII, This is true under the “magic words” understanding of the power to declare war; but that more limited authorizations than those that simply and expressly “declare war” are nevertheless exercises of the Constitutional power to declare war and create a legal state of war is, however, well-established law, see, Bas v. Tingy, 4 U.S. 37 (1800).
    - stretchcat 6y ago
      Then why has nobody been charged with treason since WWII? Is it just not cool to do anymore or something?
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Then why has nobody been charged with treason since WWII? Why would they be? > Is it just not cool to do anymore or something? Mostly. It's not like you can give someone a super-death penalty, and when progressive criminalization has made it so that everything that qualifies as treason is also covered by other crimes that carry similar sentences but don't require two witnesses to the same over act or a confession on top of the standard criminal “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof, why would a prosecutor ever bother with treason charges except as a political stunt?

by xxpor 6y ago

dragonwriter 6y ago

> terrorists aren't levying war, because they're not part of a state Being part of a state is not required to levy war.

stretchcat 6y ago
As far as I am aware, America hasn't had a legally declared war since WWII, and hasn't convicted anybody of treason since then either. Even the Rosenbergs, executed for espionage, weren't convicted of treason. It sure seems to me like in practice, it's not possible for an American to commit treason if there isn't a proper war on. Am I missing something?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > As far as I am aware, America hasn't had a legally declared war since WWII, This is true under the “magic words” understanding of the power to declare war; but that more limited authorizations than those that simply and expressly “declare war” are nevertheless exercises of the Constitutional power to declare war and create a legal state of war is, however, well-established law, see, Bas v. Tingy, 4 U.S. 37 (1800).
  - stretchcat 6y ago
    Then why has nobody been charged with treason since WWII? Is it just not cool to do anymore or something?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Then why has nobody been charged with treason since WWII? Why would they be? > Is it just not cool to do anymore or something? Mostly. It's not like you can give someone a super-death penalty, and when progressive criminalization has made it so that everything that qualifies as treason is also covered by other crimes that carry similar sentences but don't require two witnesses to the same over act or a confession on top of the standard criminal “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof, why would a prosecutor ever bother with treason charges except as a political stunt?