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Man, sharing this link in January 2021 is just brutal :D It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Which societ

Man, sharing this link in January 2021 is just brutal :D It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Which society? By which measures are you evaluating the situation? Do you feel you have any control over the collapse, or a participation mandate at any level? How much does it seem to parallel your current personal life situation? Are things similarly chaotic, or do you find yourself at peace? Just curious.

sleepysysadmin 6y ago
>It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Which society? By which measures are you evaluating the situation? Not exactly, but I can completely see why some people think so. What's happening fundamentally is that the boomers are on the verge of retirement. The worker shortage of 2030 is set in stone and the only way to mitigate the damage is very large amounts of immigration. the problem is that housing is limited, worker shortage means housing wont be built to required capacity, and our top industries are becoming parasitic at best. This creates political pressure. Then add in the consequences, women entering the workforce has been wonderful but not for the average worker. Supply increased by demand decreased because political policy of globalism shipped jobs out of the country. Thus we have income inequality that's out of control. We also have historic lows of marriage and births. The blame is 100% in the hands of the government. you then look at the government's failure and it's a disaster. So many federal governments are functionally bankrupt and the debt is higher than ever. the government cant afford to fix their mistakes. What's the point of society? It's the humans. We have failed in this regard. Will it be collapse? Nope, but I know what's coming to prevent the collapse. the governments know how to do this each time.
jdkee 6y ago
Parts of the United States resemble a failed state with endemic violence, hunger and poverty exacerbated by the pandemic. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/us/crime-poverty-pandemic-cleveland.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/us/crime-poverty-pandemic...
thewarrior 6y ago
I have been learning more about biology and the immune system. I’ve realized that genetic engineering of viruses is something far easier than making a nuclear weapon and could easily wipe out humanity. It doesn’t have to be a government some crazy cult might just do it 50 years from now and create a pathogen immune to most vaccines.
- tylerjwilk00 6y ago
  You might enjoy looking at society as one large organism [1]. Many biological patterns reemerge at this scale. Imagine the pandemic government response as a large scale societal immune response. Inner city violence as a form of inflammation... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_organism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_organism
- flukus 6y ago
  You don't even have to wipeout humanity, look at the financial destruction the current virus has done and consider how non-lethal it is compared to many others. For that matter, every tinpot dictator and would be terrorist in the world could easily get their hands on this virus, store it for a few years until immunity has worn off and we don't have huge stockpiles of a vaccine, then purposefully release it in a dozen major cities at once, it would spread for a couple of weeks before being noticed.
JackMorgan 6y ago
I have a friend who is convinced that we're already mid-collapse and have been for decades. He cites many of the same causes found in the link above. He says, "just look at what happens to any wild animal when there aren't enough resources or they're stressed, they start going crazy: self harm, eating young, death by refusing to eat." He sees echos of behavior patterns like a fractal, so tiny patterns of behaviors in mice emerge as patterns in larger human society. He has said that he thinks human societies are just another organism that lives, ages, and dies. He doesn't really prep or anything, just expects he and most people he knows to die in food riots sometime in his life. He doesn't even bother prepping (so he says) because such a collapse likely would come from a way that he can't expect and wouldn't likely survive anyway. He realizes there isn't enough ammo to hold off millions of starving people, and the people who survive likely would do so accidentally or through freak luck, but a new society would emerge again in a few generations to repeat the cycle again. Fun guy, my friend.
- lcall 6y ago
  I believe there will be collapses and very hard things, but we can be OK (for a long list of reasons). I've written more elsewhere (at my site). But really, if we try to learn and do what is right, with a clear conscience, we can be OK. (Honesty and kindness are very important, as are the principles underlying the US Constitution. And more.)
- themodelplumber 6y ago
  I wonder, has your friend looked into the "growth and change looks like death" folks? Barbara Marx Hubbard is a good example. She offered the example of butterfly metamorphosis, which involves a pretty stunning systemic breakdown at a very deep level.
  - howlgarnish 6y ago
    I moved from Europe to the US as a teenager, and I remember being shocked at the evident shock, decay and poverty I saw even in what was supposed to be a large and prosperous city (New York). It took me a long time to realize that this is how America works: things that didn't work or that nobody wants are allowed to fail, and this clearing out of the underbrush is what allows new things to come forth. Contrast this with Europe, where things like unprofitable state enterprises are propped up essentially forever, sucking away capital and people that could be doing something useful instead. But this was a long, long time ago. These days I don't hold out much hope for the US or for Europe: humanity's future is in Asia.
zymhan 6y ago
> It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Indeed, it seems passive-aggressive to just post this link without any further commentary.
frongpik 6y ago
I'll take the liberty to share some notes from unscientific sources, because I find the official sources plain boring. A civilization is generally started by great people that put grand ideals into its foundation. A sign of such founders is their borderline unbelievable holiness, that makes them a legend. During its lifespan, great minds get replaced by small minds. The typical lifespan is about a million years, but maybe this time things move a lot quicker. The latter are attracted not to the ideals, but to the earthly things, such as shiny metals and power over others. I believe we are here now. In all cases, such people eventually discover the secret of black magic (I know, many would cough here) and the dark age begins. A sign of that phase is cyclopic brutalistic architecture that worships human body (that's an important detail). We've had a glimpse into that already: nazism. We seem to be moving rapidly in that direction: powerful dictatorships are plenty, while democracies are few. Another sign of that phase is abandoning liberty and reason, because the evil (the dark side of every human) has neither, and embracing chaos and fatalism. Example: the idea that voting doesn't matter, whether it's technically true or not. The terminal stage of every big civilization is a collapse into a sort of a black hole: people are paralyzed by fear and hate, the dominating ideology is a dark cult. There's no coming back from that stage, as that kind of dark cult has real power. At this point, the civilization always gets an external "help" that wipes everything out, so the few survivors could start it over, but now at the next level.
op03 6y ago
I have multiple ant colonies in my garden and when I was younger spent a whole lot of time trying everything imaginable to get rid of them (induce collapse you could say). But with each attempt my admiration for them just kept growing. Cause these fuckers with their spec of dust sized brains keep chugging along the next day morning as if nothing at all happened. Its like every calamity is just a minor interruption to whatever they are upto. So I just use their model. My mantra over time has become - "Dont sit around appreciating the pain. Get back to work" But the caveat here is, as with the ants, you must have a goto list of things to do. When I was younger I had no idea what I wanted to do so the mantra worked terribly. But the older I have gotten the list of things to do has grown. So like the ant no matter what happens theres always something to do.
throw0101a 6y ago
> It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Which society? By which measures are you evaluating the situation? Since you ask: * https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/ https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/ The more pratically-minded lean more towards: * https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/ https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/ There's a certain minimum effort that most people should probably do (even if you don't live in a earthquake zone or hurricane area) * https://www.ready.gov https://www.ready.gov * https://www.getprepared.gc.ca/index-en.aspx https://www.getprepared.gc.ca/index-en.aspx

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

>It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Which society? By which measures are you evaluating the situation? Not exactly, but I can completely see why some people think so. What's happening fundamentally is that the boomers are on the verge of retirement. The worker shortage of 2030 is set in stone and the only way to mitigate the damage is very large amounts of immigration. the problem is that housing is limited, worker shortage means housing wont be built to required capacity, and our top industries are becoming parasitic at best. This creates political pressure. Then add in the consequences, women entering the workforce has been wonderful but not for the average worker. Supply increased by demand decreased because political policy of globalism shipped jobs out of the country. Thus we have income inequality that's out of control. We also have historic lows of marriage and births. The blame is 100% in the hands of the government. you then look at the government's failure and it's a disaster. So many federal governments are functionally bankrupt and the debt is higher than ever. the government cant afford to fix their mistakes. What's the point of society? It's the humans. We have failed in this regard. Will it be collapse? Nope, but I know what's coming to prevent the collapse. the governments know how to do this each time.

jdkee 6y ago

Parts of the United States resemble a failed state with endemic violence, hunger and poverty exacerbated by the pandemic. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/us/crime-poverty-pandemic-cleveland.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/us/crime-poverty-pandemic...

thewarrior 6y ago

I have been learning more about biology and the immune system. I’ve realized that genetic engineering of viruses is something far easier than making a nuclear weapon and could easily wipe out humanity. It doesn’t have to be a government some crazy cult might just do it 50 years from now and create a pathogen immune to most vaccines.

tylerjwilk00 6y ago
You might enjoy looking at society as one large organism [1]. Many biological patterns reemerge at this scale. Imagine the pandemic government response as a large scale societal immune response. Inner city violence as a form of inflammation... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_organism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_organism
flukus 6y ago
You don't even have to wipeout humanity, look at the financial destruction the current virus has done and consider how non-lethal it is compared to many others. For that matter, every tinpot dictator and would be terrorist in the world could easily get their hands on this virus, store it for a few years until immunity has worn off and we don't have huge stockpiles of a vaccine, then purposefully release it in a dozen major cities at once, it would spread for a couple of weeks before being noticed.

JackMorgan 6y ago

I have a friend who is convinced that we're already mid-collapse and have been for decades. He cites many of the same causes found in the link above. He says, "just look at what happens to any wild animal when there aren't enough resources or they're stressed, they start going crazy: self harm, eating young, death by refusing to eat." He sees echos of behavior patterns like a fractal, so tiny patterns of behaviors in mice emerge as patterns in larger human society. He has said that he thinks human societies are just another organism that lives, ages, and dies. He doesn't really prep or anything, just expects he and most people he knows to die in food riots sometime in his life. He doesn't even bother prepping (so he says) because such a collapse likely would come from a way that he can't expect and wouldn't likely survive anyway. He realizes there isn't enough ammo to hold off millions of starving people, and the people who survive likely would do so accidentally or through freak luck, but a new society would emerge again in a few generations to repeat the cycle again. Fun guy, my friend.

lcall 6y ago
I believe there will be collapses and very hard things, but we can be OK (for a long list of reasons). I've written more elsewhere (at my site). But really, if we try to learn and do what is right, with a clear conscience, we can be OK. (Honesty and kindness are very important, as are the principles underlying the US Constitution. And more.)
themodelplumber 6y ago
I wonder, has your friend looked into the "growth and change looks like death" folks? Barbara Marx Hubbard is a good example. She offered the example of butterfly metamorphosis, which involves a pretty stunning systemic breakdown at a very deep level.
- howlgarnish 6y ago
  I moved from Europe to the US as a teenager, and I remember being shocked at the evident shock, decay and poverty I saw even in what was supposed to be a large and prosperous city (New York). It took me a long time to realize that this is how America works: things that didn't work or that nobody wants are allowed to fail, and this clearing out of the underbrush is what allows new things to come forth. Contrast this with Europe, where things like unprofitable state enterprises are propped up essentially forever, sucking away capital and people that could be doing something useful instead. But this was a long, long time ago. These days I don't hold out much hope for the US or for Europe: humanity's future is in Asia.

zymhan 6y ago

> It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Indeed, it seems passive-aggressive to just post this link without any further commentary.

frongpik 6y ago

I'll take the liberty to share some notes from unscientific sources, because I find the official sources plain boring. A civilization is generally started by great people that put grand ideals into its foundation. A sign of such founders is their borderline unbelievable holiness, that makes them a legend. During its lifespan, great minds get replaced by small minds. The typical lifespan is about a million years, but maybe this time things move a lot quicker. The latter are attracted not to the ideals, but to the earthly things, such as shiny metals and power over others. I believe we are here now. In all cases, such people eventually discover the secret of black magic (I know, many would cough here) and the dark age begins. A sign of that phase is cyclopic brutalistic architecture that worships human body (that's an important detail). We've had a glimpse into that already: nazism. We seem to be moving rapidly in that direction: powerful dictatorships are plenty, while democracies are few. Another sign of that phase is abandoning liberty and reason, because the evil (the dark side of every human) has neither, and embracing chaos and fatalism. Example: the idea that voting doesn't matter, whether it's technically true or not. The terminal stage of every big civilization is a collapse into a sort of a black hole: people are paralyzed by fear and hate, the dominating ideology is a dark cult. There's no coming back from that stage, as that kind of dark cult has real power. At this point, the civilization always gets an external "help" that wipes everything out, so the few survivors could start it over, but now at the next level.

op03 6y ago

I have multiple ant colonies in my garden and when I was younger spent a whole lot of time trying everything imaginable to get rid of them (induce collapse you could say). But with each attempt my admiration for them just kept growing. Cause these fuckers with their spec of dust sized brains keep chugging along the next day morning as if nothing at all happened. Its like every calamity is just a minor interruption to whatever they are upto. So I just use their model. My mantra over time has become - "Dont sit around appreciating the pain. Get back to work" But the caveat here is, as with the ants, you must have a goto list of things to do. When I was younger I had no idea what I wanted to do so the mantra worked terribly. But the older I have gotten the list of things to do has grown. So like the ant no matter what happens theres always something to do.

throw0101a 6y ago

> It made me wonder though, who here legitimately thinks their society is nearing collapse? Which society? By which measures are you evaluating the situation? Since you ask: * https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/ https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/ The more pratically-minded lean more towards: * https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/ https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/ There's a certain minimum effort that most people should probably do (even if you don't live in a earthquake zone or hurricane area) * https://www.ready.gov https://www.ready.gov * https://www.getprepared.gc.ca/index-en.aspx https://www.getprepared.gc.ca/index-en.aspx