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Why are Thermal cameras lagging in resolution? Visible wavelength cameras can be had upwards of 50MP for $5k.
by systemvoltage 6y ago
Why are Thermal cameras lagging in resolution? Visible wavelength cameras can be had upwards of 50MP for $5k.
- supernova87a 6y agoAs I recall, IR sensors are also much more expensive to produce, as in, 1Kx1K is already a very large array and costs thousands of $. So any ordinary consumer is not likely to be using something with very high resolution.
- giantg2 6y agoI agree. The median income in the US is $35k, and many of these things are 5-10% of that. I'd really like a monocular, but anything decent is very expensive.
- 0xFluegel 6y agoThe sensor needs a lot more energy. This produces two types of IR cams: actively and passively cooled. The passive cooling is easy to take around with you but only possible with a smaller sensor. As for the price per pixel: I don't know from memory.
- semi-extrinsic 6y agoI think it's a combination of physics (wavelength is 20x larger than visual light, making optics and sensors trickier) and export control, as you could (literally) weaponize a high-res thermal camera to make an autonomous drone/missile targetting hot exhaust etc.
- jzwinck 6y agoThermal cameras measure much larger waves (7-14 microns as described in the article), and their sensitivity to amplitude is high. A major limiting factor in camera sensor resolution is signal to noise ratio. It is well known that if you bump up the "ISO" (light sensitivity) to make photographs at night, you see more noise. The higher the sensor resolution, the smaller each photosite and therefore the less signal (fewer photons) captured in the short time of one exposure. Larger sensors can solve this problem but these are CMOS devices whose cost increases superlinearly with area (like microprocessors, see die yield). Most customers won't accept dead pixels. Economics is also a major enabler of kilobuck 50 MP visible light cameras, miracles though they are. Industrial users aren't going to re-buy all their cameras every few years like DSLR users do.
- jedimastert 6y agoI wonder if lower-iso long-exposure thermals would be useful, or if it would get too "motion blurred"
- jzwinck 6y agoSure but can you sell a thermal camera that takes e.g. one second per exposure? And costs even more than current models? I'm not sure there's much of a market there.
- tpmx 6y agoThis is just slighly informed, please prove me wrong. The major market so far seems to have been tactical/military, so they have focused on framerates rather than resolution. And then the US blocked high framerates for civilian use... (edit: the US blocked civilian exports.)
- RyJones 6y agoMy thermal camera[0] is 30Hz, which I assume is 30 FPS, and I'm a civilian. [0]: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194041-REG/flir_431_0011_21_00_scout_ls_xr_640x512_thermal.html/overview https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194041-REG/flir_431_...
- tpmx 6y ago> Export of this device described herein is strictly prohibited without a valid export license issued by the U.S. Department of State Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, as prescribed in the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) ... So I guess they only blocked civilian exports from the US.
- chris_overseas 6y agoI bought a HIK Vision Vulkan 35mm Pro [0] in the UK recently which refreshes at 50Hz, and I've seen others that can do 60Hz. One nice thing about the HIK Vision is that it comes with a documented API for controlling it via a wifi hotspot. [0] https://www.hikvision.com/en/products/Thermal-Products/Commercial-vision-thermal-cameras/Handheld-series/ds-2ts06-35xf-w/ https://www.hikvision.com/en/products/Thermal-Products/Comme...
- rahimiali 6y agoVisible wavelength cameras rely on relatively cheap CMOS sensors. CMOS processes have been squeezed for efficiency for decades to make, for example cheap DRAM. The technologies behind thermal cameras are very different because they need to be sensitive to wavelengths 10x longer than visible light (the silicon in CMOS is basically completely insensitive to light above 2 um, whereas thermal cameras need to image at ~10 um). The pixels are effectively microbolometers and rely on more exotic materials like Germanium.
- jacquesm 6y agoFunny how once upon a time it was Silicon that was considered to be the rare material for semiconductor manufacture. Then it took over and Germanium was pretty much lost, though at 0.2V forward bias it has a lot of unique applications in sensing gear. It is also why you really want to use a Germanium diode for your crystal radio set!
- _trampeltier 6y agoBecause companys pay so much, so why make an cheaper product. Mike did a real teardown on a Flir E4 many years ago, and saw (with an oscilloscope), even on the cheap camera with the low resolution, the chip has the full resolution. I think one week later the camera was hacked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtqUE67BUDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtqUE67BUDI
- centimeter 6y agoMicrobolometer pixels are big and expensive compared to CMOS pixels.