3 ms·

It’s an article of economic faith that government parties will always, by definition, provide superior outcomes with reduced costs.

germinalphrase 6y ago
I have never encountered your position in the wild.
- alentist 6y ago
  I highly doubt that.
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    Perhaps my perspective is skewed by living in the Midwest. By virtue of some private interests, I interact with quite a few very conservative people and perhaps the ‘average man on the street’ is already more culturally conservative than on the coasts. I maintain my position though. I really have never come across a person in conversation who would take an absolutist position that government action is always going to be better than private enterprise, but the opposite absolutist position is somewhat common. It say it’s an article of faith because the people I’ve spoken to are not up for discussion about it. They have established their belief and nothing will cast a shadow of doubt upon it.
    - alentist 6y ago
      > I interact with quite a few very conservative people and perhaps the ‘average man on the street’ is already more culturally conservative than on the coasts. You’re claiming that all these people you’ve met are anarcho-capitalists? Are you under the impression that cultural conservatism means anarcho-capitalism? > but the opposite absolutist position is somewhat common You’ve provided no evidence that it is more common. In my experience, the opposite is true.
    - turbinerneiter 6y ago
      I also never meet anyone who has such an extreme view on things. Here in Europe, we believe that certain things should be public: education, roads, health care, social security, basic research, while other things should be private, like smartphones, cars, ... And I think for most of the things we like public, there is a good evidence that it should be. I.e. Euro style health care systems spend less money per patient while achieving a higher average lifespan when compared to whatever system the US has. In general, the argument for private systems is that since they have to make a profit, they will be more efficient. In reality, they have to make a profit, which public systems don't have to. Public systems however have the same price pressure than private systems, since people put this pressure up via democracy. The biggest issues I see is that public systems are less capable of big innovation vs. small process improvements. This can be tackled via the basic research done at public universities + the private sectors work to bring these to market. Also, if you follow Peter Thiele Line of thought on how every business should strive for monopoly, so they can take monopoly profits and "focus on the product instead of the competition" - a public service that has granted this monopoly by law would be perfect: they have no competition, so they can focus on making the best product, and they don't have to make a profit, which means they can operate at cost. Now, I don't think it's as easy as that, but in the end, if you stop being an extremist, you can mix and match all kinds of system to use what is best, instead of striving for something that is ideologically pure. tl;dr: I want my smartphone from private companies competing for the best product, I want my water from a public utility.
      - alentist 6y ago
        > Public systems however have the same price pressure than private systems, since people put this pressure up via democracy. Not at all. Far from it. This is a very naive view of voting and public choice systems. See for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#Special_interests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#Special_interest... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_failure#Political_self-interest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_failure#Political_s... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#%22Expressive_interests%22_and_democratic_irrationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#%22Expressive_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_proble... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle#Pournelle's_iron_law_of_bureaucracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle#Pournelle's_ir...

germinalphrase 6y ago

I have never encountered your position in the wild.

alentist 6y ago
I highly doubt that.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  Perhaps my perspective is skewed by living in the Midwest. By virtue of some private interests, I interact with quite a few very conservative people and perhaps the ‘average man on the street’ is already more culturally conservative than on the coasts. I maintain my position though. I really have never come across a person in conversation who would take an absolutist position that government action is always going to be better than private enterprise, but the opposite absolutist position is somewhat common. It say it’s an article of faith because the people I’ve spoken to are not up for discussion about it. They have established their belief and nothing will cast a shadow of doubt upon it.
  - alentist 6y ago
    > I interact with quite a few very conservative people and perhaps the ‘average man on the street’ is already more culturally conservative than on the coasts. You’re claiming that all these people you’ve met are anarcho-capitalists? Are you under the impression that cultural conservatism means anarcho-capitalism? > but the opposite absolutist position is somewhat common You’ve provided no evidence that it is more common. In my experience, the opposite is true.
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    I also never meet anyone who has such an extreme view on things. Here in Europe, we believe that certain things should be public: education, roads, health care, social security, basic research, while other things should be private, like smartphones, cars, ... And I think for most of the things we like public, there is a good evidence that it should be. I.e. Euro style health care systems spend less money per patient while achieving a higher average lifespan when compared to whatever system the US has. In general, the argument for private systems is that since they have to make a profit, they will be more efficient. In reality, they have to make a profit, which public systems don't have to. Public systems however have the same price pressure than private systems, since people put this pressure up via democracy. The biggest issues I see is that public systems are less capable of big innovation vs. small process improvements. This can be tackled via the basic research done at public universities + the private sectors work to bring these to market. Also, if you follow Peter Thiele Line of thought on how every business should strive for monopoly, so they can take monopoly profits and "focus on the product instead of the competition" - a public service that has granted this monopoly by law would be perfect: they have no competition, so they can focus on making the best product, and they don't have to make a profit, which means they can operate at cost. Now, I don't think it's as easy as that, but in the end, if you stop being an extremist, you can mix and match all kinds of system to use what is best, instead of striving for something that is ideologically pure. tl;dr: I want my smartphone from private companies competing for the best product, I want my water from a public utility.
    - alentist 6y ago
      > Public systems however have the same price pressure than private systems, since people put this pressure up via democracy. Not at all. Far from it. This is a very naive view of voting and public choice systems. See for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#Special_interests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#Special_interest... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_failure#Political_self-interest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_failure#Political_s... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#%22Expressive_interests%22_and_democratic_irrationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice#%22Expressive_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_proble... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle#Pournelle's_iron_law_of_bureaucracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle#Pournelle's_ir...